David Hall auctioning his t206 master collection

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

I agree having at least one would be nice but was curious about your boycotting. Heritage is doing the auctions and nearly all of David's cards were graded before all this card doctoring. I personally believe that purchasing any of his cards now would be just like if we were purchasing them two years ago in regards to the grading. Also, David never bothered to reholder his collection to add any provenance on the holders, so the only way to tell if a card was one of David's would be to cross reference the PSA number and the auction catalog.

Card doctoring has been rampant for decades. I don't know what you mean by "before all this card doctoring." The Harris Collection was what, 1990s?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Card doctoring has been rampant for decades. I don't know what you mean by "before all this card doctoring." The Harris Collection was what, 1990s?

ya...and there's the gretzky wagner. Out of 5000 T206's there is no doubt altered cards in there. But a unique opportunity for sure!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

ya...and there's the gretzky wagner. Out of 5000 T206's there is no doubt altered cards in there. But a unique opportunity for sure!

Some people seem to have a distinct misimpression that because it's much easier to trace newer sales through high quality scans and the majority of outed cards thus have been in newer holders, that somehow that means rampant card doctoring is a recent phenomenon. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[ullmandds]

Ignorance is bliss, Pete!

I wish I could feign ignorance!

Additionally there are a few cards I want so bad I wouldn't care if they were altered.

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Card doctoring has been rampant for decades. I don't know what you mean by "before all this card doctoring." The Harris Collection was what, 1990s?

I meant before this Moser/PWCC scandal jumped off. I know there have been issues with cards before that but nothing to this current level of impact. Maybe social media is driving the topic further than it normally would be. When the whole T206 Wagner thing happened, nearly anyone was worried about buying PSA graded cards or having altered cards in their personal collection. My main opinion was that David's collection has the same risk that other cards had, before the Moser scandal happened.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

I meant before this Moser/PWCC scandal jumped off. I know there have been issues with cards before that but nothing to this current level of impact. Maybe social media is driving the topic further than it normally would be. When the whole T206 Wagner thing happened, nearly anyone was worried about buying PSA graded cards or having altered cards in their personal collection. My main opinion was that David's collection has the same risk that other cards had, before the Moser scandal happened.

Again, in my opinion, the current level of impact is only due to message board and now media publicity. The same problem, in the same percentage, applies to cards graded since day one. And it's a major problem. High grade T206s in particular, see the Harris Collection and so on.

Plus, you have the added fact here that PSA graded its owner's cards. There is certainly a potential conflict.

Maybe they're all fine. But there is certainly reason for caution, IMO.

[darwinbulldog]

What percentage of all PSA (numerically) graded T206s do you think are altered in some way that should have disqualified them from a numerical grade? 0.1? 1? 10? 50?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

What percentage of all PSA (numerically) graded T206s do you think are altered in some way that should have disqualified them from a numerical grade? 0.1? 1? 10? 50?

Applying PSA published standards literally, such that pressing out a corner or surface wrinkle, or any erasure, would count as an alteration?

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Applying PSA published standards literally, such that pressing out a corner or surface wrinkle, or any erasure, would count as an alteration?

Let's say it's acceptable if you just use your fingers but if you use any other equipment or any chemicals other than air and water it's no good.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Let's say it's acceptable if you just use your fingers but if you use any other equipment or any chemicals other than air and water it's no good.

I am only speculating. But I would guess
1-3 5-10 percent
4-7 20-40 percent
8 and up 50 percent or higher