ethical question

[Sportzking]

I'm just wondering, lets say you're not a big time dealer and the card in question is a thousand dollar card. Then this happens a year after you sell the card and you know that financially you would be in a huge hole if you managed to refund the buyer, would you still hold the fact the seller should be honoring the sale?

Also how do people know if the buyer didn't somehow crack the slab and slipped in a trimmed card, which as I recall they had this problem with old PSA slabs before. Then proclaimed the card is altered and demand a refund? I know its a bunch of what ifs and am not taking sides.

I feel with this recent alteration thing blowing up its not just turning collectors against the TPGs. Its also turning collectors against other collectors, and dealers too.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Sportzking

I'm just wondering, lets say you're not a big time dealer and the card in question is a thousand dollar card. Then this happens a year after you sell the card and you know that financially you would be in a huge hole if you managed to refund the buyer, would you still hold the fact the seller should be honoring the sale?

Also how do people know if the buyer didn't somehow crack the slab and slipped in a trimmed card, which as I recall they had this problem with old PSA slabs before. Then proclaimed the card is altered and demand a refund? I know its a bunch of what ifs and am not taking sides.

I feel with this recent alteration thing blowing up its not just turning collectors against the TPGs. Its also turning collectors against other collectors, and dealers too.

cracked slabs is a all different thing as those ruin the chain of custody issue and guarantee I dont see a seller having to legally refund a card if its proven the slab was cracked open

[Fballguy]

A year or more later, I would not refund. What items that you purchase are guaranteed that long by the seller? If it was a few weeks up to maybe 30 days, I'd consider it.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

A year or more later, I would not refund. What items that you purchase are guaranteed that long by the seller? If it was a few weeks up to maybe 30 days, I'd consider it.

That is a good point. I think giving a fair (and stated upfront) return period, including a duration for the collector to check out the item and get second opinions, is, well, fair.

Of course some collectors want, and sometimes insist in preacher tones from the rooftops, on a double their money back guarantee to infinity plus one year and rights to the firstborn. However, as I say "A lot of people want a lot of things. I wanted a pony as a kid."

[pclpads]

Confucius say: "Caveat Emptor." 'Nuff said.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by drcy

That is a good point. I think giving a fair (and stated upfront) return period, including a duration for the collector to check out the item and get second opinions, is, well, fair.

Of course some collectors want, and sometimes insist in preacher tones from the rooftops, on a double their money back guarantee to infinity plus one year and rights to the firstborn. However, as I say "A lot of people want a lot of things. I wanted a pony as a kid."

I've mentioned this before, the stamp and coin guy I've been going to for more than 30 years took back a coin he'd sold several years before that had just been rejected as altered. (never slabbed, the original sale was possibly before slabbing existed, it failed on its first trip to TPG.)
The coin was obviously altered, and he'd somehow missed that years earlier. I got to inspect it firsthand with a detailed explanation of why it was no good and what to look for.

That's the model I've always tried to use in any of my dealings.
At the bike shop we had I think a 30 or 90 day warranty on any work done. Problems usually come up right away, so either is usually way longer than needed.
I did a job as a warranty repair at a bit over 2 years. It was obvious the bike hadn't been ridden, and that I'd blown it that day. My exact comment was "What the heck was I thinking when I did that? Anyway, I'll fix it for free. "

In the end, I got far more business from people he referred than the repair cost.

So yes, if I sold a graded card, and it turned out to be proven to be altered, I would take it back. Probably even after a crackout and regrade if I was sure it was the same card.

[Misunderestimated]

Ethically I would say that one does not have to accept the return if its based on the TPG's guarantee (that's my preliminary legal conclusion too-- without having researched it etc.)

But I would under most circumstances accept the return as a best practice -- not because I had to or even out of an ethical compulsion. It just seems right to me.

But I'm not envisioning a scenario with a huge amount of money at stake which might force me (or anyone else) to be reticent simply because I could not afford to reimburse on the spot without missing a mortgage payment or something.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

Ethically I would say that one does not have to accept the return if its based on the TPG's guarantee (that's my preliminary legal conclusion too-- without having researched it etc.)

But I would under most circumstances accept the return as a best practice -- not because I had to or even out of an ethical compulsion. It just seems right to me.

But I'm not envisioning a scenario with a huge amount of money at stake which might force me (or anyone else) to be reticent simply because I could not afford to reimburse on the spot without missing a mortgage payment or something.

Legally, why can't the buyer rescind based on the doctrine of mutual mistake?

[wondo]

I'd evaluate on each individual case, but would certainly lean to making it right with the buyer.

Seems like a convenient dodge for a number of expert collectors / dealers who disparage TPGs; all of a sudden hiding behind the TPG guarantee. Pathetic and disgusting. This behavior is why TPGs got a foothold in the first place.

There have been examples of what folks are calling obvious alterations when the card is exposed - where the hell were the expert dealers when the card was sold? Cashing the check, that's where.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

A year or more later, I would not refund. What items that you purchase are guaranteed that long by the seller? If it was a few weeks up to maybe 30 days, I'd consider it.

So you would be comfortable keeping the money even though you now know beyond a doubt that a card you sold was altered, and even though (according to the hypothetical) you're a dealer selling to a collector? Not sure I would be.

[MULLINS5]

If I sold one of these cards I'd absolutely accept a refund and hope dealers do the same, but understand not everyone may have the funds to make things right.