PWCC PSA2 T3 Cobb

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You may want to keep reading the thread, all that has changed. When I wrote that I assumed Jesse was taking the card down.

Yeah I already read that bit. Still felt the need to give you props for explaining what you did when you did.

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

What about the 17 folks who have already bid on this card plus those folks that haven't yet bid but have created snipes, many/most of whom probably did so before the disclosure was added to the bottom of PWCC's eBay listing? My guess is that most of these folks won't even be going back the reread the listing's details. At least I don't after I have once read a listing's details and decided to bid on it. IMO, at the very least, some words about there being a new disclosure should be added to the title line of the listing.

Very good points!

[dariushou]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I was sent the statement via email and did not notice the placement. I will discuss further with Brent. My intention was to have prospective bidders made aware of the history that I was unaware of when purchasing this card and let them make their own decision.

The only right thing to do in my opinion is to either pull the auction or put it in the title of the auction. It needs to be clear and conspicuous and anything less such as including it in the description is not going to hold up. It's ridiculous to do anything other than those two options in my opinion. If someone buys that card and claim they didn't see the fine print (the description) then you will lose. FTC Standard and let me tell you something..it applies here. You know the card is altered and so does everyone reading this forum and Brent. Anything less is fraud in my opinion.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by dariushou

The only right thing to do in my opinion is to either pull the auction or put it in the title of the auction. It needs to be clear and conspicuous and anything in the description is not going to hold up. It's ridiculous to do anything other than those two options in my opinion. If someone buys that card and claim they didn't see the fine print (the description) then you will lose. FTC Standard and let me tell you something..it applies here. You know the card is altered and so does everyone reading this forum and Brent. Anything less is fraud in my opinion.

This hobby has gone to hell.....it’s an absolute shame �� I’m glad I can still look back and remember all the great friends I’ve made from being in the hobby....it just seems to be getting worse by the day hour and minute

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by dariushou

The only right thing to do in my opinion is to either pull the auction or put it in the title of the auction. It needs to be clear and conspicuous and anything less such as including it in the description is not going to hold up. It's ridiculous to do anything other than those two options in my opinion. If someone buys that card and claim they didn't see the fine print (the description) then you will lose. FTC Standard and let me tell you something..it applies here. You know the card is altered and so does everyone reading this forum and Brent. Anything less is fraud in my opinion.

If I were even trying to do this right I would also include a picture of the card in the AUTH holder. And take out that fraudulent statement that the 2 grade is appropriate. No it isn't and you know it.

But I don't see any way to do this right. It's an altered card in a 2 holder and all the disclosure in the world isn't going to stop the buyer from reselling it without disclosure and that is a real concern.

[dariushou]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If I were even trying to do this right I would also include a picture of the card in the AUTH holder. And take out that fraudulent statement that the 2 grade is appropriate. No it isn't and you know it.

But I don't see any way to do this right. It's an altered card in a 2 holder and all the disclosure in the world isn't going to stop the buyer from reselling it without disclosure and that is a real concern.

I agree. It really should be pulled. These altered cards need to be marked in some way (invisible ink...but geez...maybe moser and crew can erase that). I hate to say destroy such card...but what else can you do. Actually, i think i read where someone said put a hole through it -- maybe invisible ink and a hole through it. scammers probably will fill the hole and erase invisible ink though. Man this sucks...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by dariushou

I agree. It really should be pulled. These altered cards need to be marked in some way (invisible ink...but geez...maybe moser and crew can erase that). I hate to say destroy such card...but what else can you do. Actually, i think i read where someone said put a hole through it -- maybe invisible ink and a hole through it. scammers probably will fill the hole and erase invisible ink though. Man this sucks...

I would be OK with returning it to an AUTH/Altered holder.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

And pardon the harshness

But I suggest you do some homework on t3s.

Clearly has been pressed, upper left and lower right. Looks like a pin hole filled, and two erasure marks around his name

I typed this Before blowout found it, but PSA couldnt see this?

[pokerplyr80]

Waiting on a response from Brent and I reached out to Dan as well and am waiting on his response. I will update with more information as I have it.

[dariushou]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would be OK with returning it to an AUTH/Altered holder.

Unfortunately, it will just be cracked out. I'm not as tech savvy as some, but maybe some sort of application that could identify the card compared to past transactions...but then again that doesn't stop the card doctors from card doctoring cards that haven't been up for sale in recent history.

I just don't see a solution for current doctored cards unless they are destroyed...or clearly mark the card in some way. At least the card that is marked in some clear way could be scanned front and back and entered into a database so that collectors could compare the card against. I don't know. just playing the guessing game here. again, this doesn't protect the cards that are not known to be doctored...

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by dariushou

The only right thing to do in my opinion is to either pull the auction or put it in the title of the auction. It needs to be clear and conspicuous and anything less such as including it in the description is not going to hold up. It's ridiculous to do anything other than those two options in my opinion. If someone buys that card and claim they didn't see the fine print (the description) then you will lose. FTC Standard and let me tell you something..it applies here. You know the card is altered and so does everyone reading this forum and Brent. Anything less is fraud in my opinion.

Yes. In my personal opinion as one of the lawyers here it should be pulled. It's perpetuating a pattern of fraud at the very least. Those directly involved should file a complaint with the FTC at the very least. I'm also hoping Brent isn't as dumb as he seems by this though who knows. Could very well (hopefully) be a set up by feds to help get to the bottom of this.

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Waiting on a response from Brent and I reached out to Dan as well and am waiting on his response. I will update with more information as I have it.

As we all eagerly wait, how's everyone's Saturday night otherwise?

[jfkheat]

Here is the sale when it was in an Authentic holder

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by kateighty

As we all eagerly wait, how's everyone's Saturday night otherwise?

I assume that was said in jest, but will update any way. I just got off the phone with Brent and it was mutually agreed upon that the listing will be ended and the card returned to me. I will reach out to PSA and see if Dan responds and will report the outcome.

There were a few factors in play that led to a delay in what I first mentioned would be the probable outcome after the blowout post. But I do believe that this is the best course of action at this time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That's good to hear. In my opinion that's definitely the right way to deal with the situation. No question it sucks as you innocently purchased the card and paid a good amount for it.

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I assume that was said in jest, but will update any way. I just got off the phone with Brent and it was mutually agreed upon that the listing will be ended and the card returned to me. I will reach out to PSA and see if Dan responds and will report the outcome.

There were a few factors in play that led to a delay in what I first mentioned would be the probable outcome after the blowout post. But I do believe that this is the best course of action at this time.

Nope not in jest. I'm here on a Saturday night awaiting the outcome like everyone else. Why I'm not sure after Leon called me, the only vocal woman here, too thin skinned for this forum in a PM. Me and my thin skin are waiting here just like everyone else.

[wondo]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That's good to hear. In my opinion that's definitely the right way to deal with the situation. No question it sucks as you innocently purchased the card and paid a good amount for it.

p

What about if he returns it to the seller? Is that a legitimate option? I may have missed some stuff, but if someone sold me something that was found to be tainted, I’d go back to the guy I bought it from.

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by wondo

p

What about if he returns it to the seller? Is that a legitimate option? I may have missed some stuff, but if someone sold me something that was found to be tainted, I’d go back to the guy I bought it from.

Absolutely. Return it.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Too funny, if it were any other AH other than PWCC Jesse would be leading the charge pitchfork in hand.

If it were any other auction house, they would end the auction.

Edited - just read that this auction will be ended. Good.

[MULLINS5]

I'm glad the right thing was done.

Shame it took some backlash to get the owner to do the right thing.

Astonishing to think him and Brent thought it was OK to pull a stunt like that.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Too funny, if it were any other AH other than PWCC Jesse would be leading the charge pitchfork in hand.

You must have me confused with someone else. The only time I ever remember speaking out against an AH was when a small one posted a fake 52 Mantle so bad it made the other fakes available on Ebay for 5 bucks look good. I don't recall leading a charge against another, but I suppose it's possible I've forgotten.

As for the Cobb I don't really expect Dan to take it back after 2 years, unless he happens to be involved in or knows what happened to it. If he wants to reach out and discuss a possible resolution I'm open to that.

I plan to contact PSA on Monday and hopefully drop the card off for review when I receive it back from PWCC. As I honestly don't know if erased pencil marks are enough for the A designation or why it it was in the A holder before I got it I am curious to see what they'll say.

[dariushou]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

You must have me confused with someone else. The only time I ever remember speaking out against an AH was when a small one posted a fake 52 Mantle so bad it made the other fakes available on Ebay for 5 bucks look good. I don't recall leading a charge against another, but I suppose it's possible I've forgotten.

As for the Cobb I don't really expect Dan to take it back after 2 years, unless he happens to be involved in or knows what happened to it. If he wants to reach out and discuss a possible resolution I'm open to that.

I plan to contact PSA on Monday and hopefully drop the card off for review when I receive it back from PWCC. As I honestly don't know if erased pencil marks are enough for the A designation or why it it was in the A holder before I got it I am curious to see what they'll say.

What in gods name do you mean when you state "if erased pencil marks are enough for the A designation". I hope you misspoke. Do you see the eraser marks on the card? I do as does everyone else. That's flagrant alternation but still misses the point. Using an eraser to erase a previous stain/pen/pencil mark will remove the color from the card and likely more than that...as seen in your card that was altered. There's no excuse here. The card you purchased from Dan was altered. Plain and simple.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Jesse bought this card from Dan McKee.

PWCC has it now: therefore it's Fake.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That's good to hear. In my opinion that's definitely the right way to deal with the situation. No question it sucks as you innocently purchased the card and paid a good amount for it.

Yes, good to hear and it does suck. I feel bad you're wrapped up in this. Honestly

BUT, It does go to show why you like to stick up for Brent Mastro all the time with all the 10's of 1000's of fraudulent acts he has committed...your sleeping with the fraud dog & maybe you didn't get the memo that the dog has fleas?

Hard to believe that with what you know, you would still do business with a F face like that, the king of trim. Imho, That card was probably recycled 3 times around PWCC for years before Dan got to it. Good luck with PSA too, they should stand right behind you!

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by dariushou

What in gods name do you mean when you state "if erased pencil marks are enough for the A designation". I hope you misspoke. Do you see the eraser marks on the card? I do as does everyone else. That's flagrant alternation but still misses the point. Using an eraser to erase a previous stain/pen/pencil mark will remove the color from the card and likely more than that...as seen in your card that was altered. There's no excuse here. The card you purchased from Dan was altered. Plain and simple.

Read PSA's definition of alteration on their website. If you read it the same way I did you'll understand my uncertainty. I'm hoping they see things the way you do and honor their guarantee.

[dariushou]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Read PSA's definition of alteration on their website. If you read it the same way I did you'll understand my uncertainty. I'm hoping they see things the way you do and honor their guarantee.

I really do not understand your uncertainty. I just went to PSAs website and went to two locations:

1) https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards/#cards

Scroll down and click on "No Grade Definitions"

Do you really feel that your card passes those conditions? Honestly...N-2, N-3, N-5, N-7 and AA. really? you question all of those??

2) https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards/#cards

scroll down until you see "Ungradable Cards"...click on it

"PSA will not grade cards that bear evidence of trimming, re-coloring, restoration, or any other forms of tampering, or are of questionable authenticity."

That should about do it...

Please let me know where the uncertainty is and maybe i or other board members can help you out.

[Goudey77]

Is there a therapist in the house who could help the obsessive behavior
My god, take a step back and don’t forget to breath, kiss your wives, hug your kids and enjoy the fact you have the income to support such a hobby.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

Is there a therapist in the house who could help the obsessive behavior
My god, take a step back and don’t forget to breath, kiss your wives, hug your kids and enjoy the fact you have the income to support such a hobby.

Agree except for your last word...Hobby.....It isn’t a hobby anymore it’s all
About MONEY....it’s very very sad has been this way for years now....it’s just gotten worse....to many people trying to make money...with less collectors...

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would be OK with returning it to an AUTH/Altered holder.

Seems like the easy solution but still doesn't prevent crack out resubs. If they missed it once...

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by kateighty

Yes. In my personal opinion as one of the lawyers here it should be pulled. It's perpetuating a pattern of fraud at the very least. Those directly involved should file a complaint with the FTC at the very least. I'm also hoping Brent isn't as dumb as he seems by this though who knows. Could very well (hopefully) be a set up by feds to help get to the bottom of this.

He's got a number of Moser cards (the guy with whom he will never do business again) in the current auction as found by BO.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

He's got a number of Moser cards (the guy with whom he will never do business again) in the current auction as found by BO.

Are you just assuming Moser is the consignor?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Agree except for your last word...Hobby.....It isn’t a hobby anymore it’s all
About MONEY....it’s very very sad has been this way for years now....it’s just gotten worse....to many people trying to make money...with less collectors...

Seriously, all these pitchforks about an erased pencil mark. It’s a shame no one can just enjoy the cards anymore.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Seriously, all these pitchforks about an erased pencil mark. It’s a shame no one can just enjoy the cards anymore.

We are all simulated hoplites.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Are you just assuming Moser is the consignor?

Most of
The ones posted were won by Whitman111 which is linked to Moser.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Most of
The ones posted were won by Whitman111 which is linked to Moser.

If this thread has taught us one thing, Moser's cards have changed hands several times.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

If this thread has taught us one thing, Moser's cards have changed hands several times.

Not particularly, the Cobb wasn't a Moser card at all.

Almost all the others were won by whitman111 or out of an auction house before being altered. Of course they we then given a sticker and changed hands most of the time.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Not particularly, the Cobb wasn't a Moser card at all.

Almost all the others were won by whitman111 or out of an auction house before being altered. Of course they we then given a sticker and changed hands most of the time.

Which cards are listed with PWCC that we know were consigned by Moser?

[MULLINS5]

Cards were also purchased by Brent, altered, and then sold.

[BLongley]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Which cards are listed with PWCC that we know were consigned by Moser?

Which cards are listed with PWCC that you know weren’t consigned by Moser?

The Exceptional T206 Matty Portrait has been sold by PWCC before, and is tied to Moser, Whitman111, which all can clearly see the before and after alterations... and is for sale again with PWCC...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...39&postcount=1

I’m not sure what points you’re trying to make, besides trying to argue with people. Go buy from PWCC if you want or wherever you want... who cares? For someone who commented before about enjoying cards... maybe you should take your own advice?

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And yet the amendment says the following.
In our opinion the current grade of a 'Good 2' appears completely appropriate.

A disgrace.

This is absolutely double talk. I can not even believe you would post it here.
I just sit back and learn the character of members here, by what they post and what they admit to.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by xplainer

This is absolutely double talk. I can not even believe you would post it here.
I just sit back and learn the character of members here, by what they post and what they admit to.

He is quoting Brent in that instance. Or maybe I'm reading your post wrong.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by BLongley

Which cards are listed with PWCC that you know weren’t consigned by Moser?

The Exceptional T206 Matty Portrait has been sold by PWCC before, and is tied to Moser, Whitman111, which all can clearly see the before and after alterations... and is for sale again with PWCC...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...39&postcount=1

I’m not sure what points you’re trying to make, besides trying to argue with people. Go buy from PWCC if you want or wherever you want... who cares? For someone who commented before about enjoying cards... maybe you should take your own advice?

If we want to throw out accusations without evidence, I won't stand in the way of the mob.

Thousands of cards have been tied to Moser and have since been sold to unwitting buyers. Which cards that are currently listed do we know were consigned by Moser?

If the answer is none, then the focus should be on notifying PWCC (and unwitting consignors) of their cards rather than assume that PWCC and consignor knows of the alleged alterations. Right?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The title has not changed. The amendment won't even be seen unless someone scrolls all the way to the very bottom after the pages of PWCC boilerplate. This is BS. I thought you had more integrity than this.

there you go thinking again. I knew he didn't have any integrity after singing his friend Brenty Mastro's praises to anyone who would listen for weeks. This is just the kind of guy that he is, that they both are. SCAMMERS

Jesse and Brenty sitting in a tree, K I S S I N G

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

If we want to throw out accusations without evidence, I won't stand in the way of the mob.

Thousands of cards have been tied to Moser and have since been sold to unwitting buyers. Which cards that are currently listed do we know were consigned by Moser?

If the answer is none, then the focus should be on notifying PWCC (and unwitting consignors) of their cards rather than assume that PWCC and consignor knows of the alleged alterations. Right?

wrong, it's not only Moser. it's 10' card Doctors. Moser is the biggest idiot AT the moment. Notify PWCC LOLOLOLOLOL. What, are you a stand up comedian?

All PWCC does is spin cards in and out of plastic containers, altering in the process. That's the facts. AND he's been doing it a long time. EVERYTHING he touches should be considered suspect at this point. These are not acqusation any longer. They are FACTS. They are right in front of you, all you have to do is open one of your eyes just a peek.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by aquarian sports cards

now to answer your question. Pwcc has nothing worth bidding on, unless you want to support a corrupt company who has worked hand in glove for years with some of the wort people in the hobby. Then, have at it!

exactly.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by swarmee

He is quoting Brent in that instance. Or maybe I'm reading your post wrong.

No, that is my response to what Brent wrote. Sorry.

And yeah, in the end, he asked that the item be taken down. But look at the all flack he got until finally did. Wow.

[BLongley]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

If we want to throw out accusations without evidence, I won't stand in the way of the mob.

Thousands of cards have been tied to Moser and have since been sold to unwitting buyers. Which cards that are currently listed do we know were consigned by Moser?

If the answer is none, then the focus should be on notifying PWCC (and unwitting consignors) of their cards rather than assume that PWCC and consignor knows of the alleged alterations. Right?

So Brent is supposedly reaching out to customers that bought altered cards through his auction house in the past. Here is a link https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1304350 again as I posted earlier, where Brett sold THIS EXACT t206 PSA 2.5 Matty Portrait and instead of contacting the purchaser who was duped, he now has this EXACT Moser card for sale in his CURRENT auction.

Shouldn’t Brett simply be refunding the purchaser who was duped?? Why is it selling in the auction again??

Bottom line which is the point everyone is trying to make is that PWCC can’t be trusted, Brent is a liar and a cheat... he doesn’t do anything ‘good’ for the hobby and will try and rip people off for the rest of his life...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

wrong, it's not only Moser. it's 10' card Doctors. Moser is the biggest idiot AT the moment. Motify PWCC LOLOLOLOLOL. What, are you a stand up comedian?

All PWCC does is spin cards in and out of plastic containers, altering in the process. That's the facts. AND he's been doing it a long time. EVERYTHING he touches should be considered suspect at this point. These are not acqusation any longer. They are FACTS. They are right in front of you, all you have to do is open one of your eyes just a peek.

Notifying PWCC did a lot of good on the Mantle that started this latest round. And on the T3 Cobb. I am sorry to say it, but this man's heart (I can't speak to the rest of the company) just does not appear to be in the right place. His instinct seems to be to do the wrong thing and when confronted to dissemble. He no longer deserves to be accorded any presumptions in his favor.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Notifying PWCC did a lot of good on the Mantle that started this latest round. And on the T3 Cobb. I am sorry to say it, but this man's heart (I can't speak to the rest of the company) just does not appear to be in the right place. His instinct seems to be to do the wrong thing and when confronted to dissemble. He no longer deserves to be accorded any presumptions in his favor.

AND neither does Jesse Asshat, your name is your destiny.

[wondo]

Originally Posted by wondo

p

What about if he returns it to the seller? Is that a legitimate option? I may have missed some stuff, but if someone sold me something that was found to be tainted, I’d go back to the guy I bought it from.

Maybe I missed another response in addition to Kat's, but what is the seller's responsibility if he sells a tainted card? Can he claim novice ignorance, just say, "It was Moser and PWCC!", and wash his hands?