Beware... Moser cards apparently in Mile High Auction

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You sound like all those parents who after the swimsuit issue canceled their son's SI subscription.

Seriously??? The swimsuit edition is the only reason to have a subscription to sports illustrated !!

[Dpeck100]

I am confused. I thought if one avoided PWCC suctions they were safe and the chances of buying an altered card were much lower.

[70ToppsFanatic]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I am confused. I thought if one avoided PWCC suctions they were safe and the chances of buying an altered card were much lower.

The sky is falling.

We’re surtounded by communist sympathizers

There are many people with varied interests in seeing this situation play out in different ways. There is very little fact and quite a lot of speculation still circulating. The BO folks have identified some significant number of potentially altered cards and adopted a guilt-by-association mentality toward any cards submitted with them. That is prudent but who knows if it will turn out to be the exception or the rule?

Bottom line is that it’s going to take quite a while for all of this to be looked into and sorted out. Is it possible that some bad slabs made it into the MH auction or any other major auction house? Sure. Is it likely to be practically every card? That seems to be a bit of a reach without evidence to back up such a comprehensive assertion. The latter seems more like an attempt to induce panic.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

The sky is falling.

We’re surtounded by communist sympathizers

There are many people with varied interests in seeing this situation play out in different ways. There is very little fact and quite a lot of speculation still circulating. The BO folks have identified some significant number of potentially altered cards and adopted a guilt-by-association mentality toward any cards submitted with them. That is prudent but who knows if it will turn out to be the exception or the rule?

Bottom line is that it’s going to take quite a while for all of this to be looked into and sorted out. Is it possible that some bad slabs made it into the MH auction or any other major auction house? Sure. Is it likely to be practically every card? That seems to be a bit of a reach without evidence to back up such a comprehensive assertion. The latter seems more like an attempt to induce panic.

I have no interest other than that the truth about this blight on the hobby finally come to light whatever its extent is. And that there be consequences for those who have created it and enabled it, I should add. I am sure many feel the same way, whatever the consequences. I hope for the best and fear the worst. As for looking into it and sorting it out, the only ones who are going to do that are those of us motivated to do so. If you think TPGs or AHs are going to do it, I respectfully disagree, their interest is to minimize and contain.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

There is very little fact and quite a lot of speculation still circulating. The BO folks have identified some significant number of potentially altered cards and adopted a guilt-by-association mentality toward any cards submitted with them. That is prudent but who knows if it will turn out to be the exception or the rule?

Is it possible that some bad slabs made it into the MH auction or any other major auction house? Sure. Is it likely to be practically every card? That seems to be a bit of a reach without evidence to back up such a comprehensive assertion.

So for the record, you’d be cool winning these cards then?

It Wouldn’t change your mind at all if you knew who consigned them, you would bid the same regardless?

And you’d have zero problem bidding in their auctions again after finding out they were accepting consignments from someone who was actively seeking to get altered cards past the TPGs?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Blowout reports many of the cards have been taken down, but the guy running the show says many more altered cards remain. Stay tuned I guess to see how it plays out. I am glad Brian is responding.

[maddux311]

At first glance there are 12 lots that have been withdrawn, much more than the 1-2 per auction. I would not be surprised if Brian found out that they were Moser's work and promptly withdrew them. Having dealt with Brian I have complete faith that he would do the right thing as he is a stand up guy.

[Johnny630]

Good Job By AH pulling these...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Good Job By AH pulling these...

Brian has a lot more sense than Brent.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Good Job By AH pulling these...

Awesome job by MH to remove these cards.

And I’m sure that these cards weren’t consigned directly by Moser and that MH never took consignments from Moser over the years when everyone knew that Moser was a card doctor.

[70ToppsFanatic]

Originally Posted by bounce

So for the record, you’d be cool winning these cards then?

It Wouldn’t change your mind at all if you knew who consigned them, you would bid the same regardless?

And you’d have zero problem bidding in their auctions again after finding out they were accepting consignments from someone who was actively seeking to get altered cards past the TPGs?

For the record, I am saying is that there is quite a bit of information not yet disclosed/uncovered/available and yet there are outrageous claims being made about 25-33% and “...practically the whole auction...” being bad slabs. That’s irresponsible and potentially something that could cause great harm to some innocent peoples’ livelihoods.

For the record, I am saying be diligent and do your homework if you’re a prospective purchaser. As for the hyperbole, stick to the facts as we know them.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

As for the hyperbole, stick to the facts as we know them.

As usual, no answers to the questions asked of you.

Fine - let's deal with facts.

Looks like at least 42 lots have been withdrawn, out of approximately 400 graded card lots.

Basically all the 1948 Leafs except one, 1948 Bowmans, all the Berk Ross except one, all the Parkhursts except one, I'm sure there are others. All of these sets were extremely popular choices for alteration.

Thankfully it appears that MH has dealt with most/all of them? Yesterday they were taking them down one at a time as discovered and reported, but seems like that changed.

I said 25% of the auction might be suspect now, so you're right I misspoke. I was referring to the single card auctions, of which something near 10% are now withdrawn.

Where exactly between this and 25% does hyperbole start and stop?

It's your prerogative to continue to insist we need a "courtroom conviction" level of certainty on each and every card. I don't need that level of certainty.

I'm glad they were withdrawn. Unfortunately, we still have to keep looking for them next time. And unless the AHs are going to share with each other and/or the market more broadly, someone else is likely going to get duped into accepting these and this whole circus will start again.

[Peter_Spaeth]

When's the last time an AH withdrew 40 cards from an auction after it opened? But nah, nothing to see here, after all, no lawsuits yet, right Jake?

And yep, the cards will just surface somewhere else.

[frankbmd]

Since when does PWCC have a monopoly on being good for the hobby?

Perhaps because their vault is bigger than the rest.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I am confused. I thought if one avoided PWCC suctions they were safe and the chances of buying an altered card were much lower.

Safe to say you have sarcasm face on right now?

Just in case you don’t, you don’t feel like this is a big deal? I did my early bidding today and saw a lot of the cards that are now being called out, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is 25% to a third of the auction that’s now “suspect”. There were already a few lots withdrawn as of mid-day today, I would imagine there are dozens more coming soon.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by bounce

Safe to say you have sarcasm face on right now?

Just in case you don’t, you don’t feel like this is a big deal? I did my early bidding today and saw a lot of the cards that are now being called out, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is 25% to a third of the auction that’s now “suspect”. There were already a few lots withdrawn as of mid-day today, I would imagine there are dozens more coming soon.

Yes of course I was joking.

In a thread last week on this forum we had some spirited back and forth and I was on the side that you would see cards surface in other auction houses just as easily.

No surprise here whatsoever.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Yes of course I was joking.

In a thread last week on this forum we had some spirited back and forth and I was on the side that you would see cards surface in other auction houses just as easily.

No surprise here whatsoever.

Like the old ad for Converse sneakers, they're everywhere.

[ruth-gehrig]

Never been real fond of auction houses that have unmarked reserve pieces as well as lots that they themselves have financial interests in. It's on page 1 under 2.d) in their current catalog if you want to take a look.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I am confused. I thought if one avoided PWCC suctions they were safe and the chances of buying an altered card were much lower.

There's evidence that Brent participated in the fraud. That's the best reason to avoid PWCC auctions.

The Mile High auction could be an attempt at a large inventory dump.