Industry participants' response to scandal so far -- report card

[steve B]

I'm not quite Nostradamus, but I predict SGC will also get an F.

[Frank A]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'm not quite Nostradamus, but I predict SGC will also get an F.

For what reason? Or are you just pissed because they are clean.

[dabbuu]

Why does everyone wish bad upon SGC? They have been pretty clean so far. Wouldn't it be nice if one company was actually relatively good at spotting doctored cards?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by dabbuu

Why does everyone wish bad upon SGC? They have been pretty clean so far. Wouldn't it be nice if one company was actually relatively good at spotting doctored cards?

I don't wish bad on them, they may be marginally better at spotting alterations, or simply more cautious about things. But as far as I know they dodge responsibility with the best of them.

And of course, PSA is so bad almost anyone could be relatively good in comparison.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

I don't wish bad on them, they may be marginally better at spotting alterations, or simply more cautious about things. But as far as I know they dodge responsibility with the best of them.

And of course, PSA is so bad almost anyone could be relatively good in comparison.

Not Beckett, apparently.

[sb1]

I can go on record saying that Gary Moser, nor any of the other named card doctors have ever consigned to my auction.

I did not know I needed to weigh-in, if there was no issue with my consignors. Apparently judgement has already been passed.


Scott

Brockelman Auctions

[RedsFan1941]

i am experiencing great uncertainty and don’t know what to make of the situation. please help.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by sb1

I can go on record saying that Gary Moser, nor any of the other named card doctors have ever consigned to my auction.

I did not know I needed to weigh-in, if there was no issue with my consignors. Apparently judgement has already been passed.


Scott

Brockelman Auctions

I would upgrade Brockelman to an A for this response.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not Beckett, apparently.

Nice.

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by dabbuu

Why does everyone wish bad upon SGC? They have been pretty clean so far. Wouldn't it be nice if one company was actually relatively good at spotting doctored cards?

They are not clean. They've authenticated forged autographs and that one is still being investigated by the FBI.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by topcat61

They are not clean. They've authenticated forged autographs and that one is still being investigated by the FBI.

SGC is being investigated by the FBI? Are they aware of this?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

SGC is being investigated by the FBI? Are they aware of this?

Maybe it is a double secret investigation, has to be a secret if their lawyer doesn't know about it.

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Maybe it is a double secret investigation, has to be a secret if their lawyer doesn't know about it.

You remember SGC graders were involved in grading forged signatures, which would fall under the preview of the FBI. I believe they're still working that case. The SEC would only look at this company if it were publicly traded. It appears to be an LLC.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

They're not really clean they're just significantly less dirty at this point. Maybe a small wax stain which can be removed?

My big regret is that my behind the scenes efforts appear to have gone for naught. It's not 100% yet so I still won't go into detail. But I did work hard at making a difference, which a couple board members can attest to.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

They're not really clean they're just significantly less dirty at this point. Maybe a small wax stain which can be removed?

My big regret is that my behind the scenes efforts appear to have gone for naught. It's not 100% yet so I still won't go into detail. But I did work hard at making a difference, which a couple board members can attest to.

Scott that effort may not have paid off but there is another one that may still be viable.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott that effort may not have paid off but there is another one that may still be viable.

Can't imagine how I could help, but you know I'm here if I can be useful.

[JohnP0621]

Originally Posted by Frank A

For what reason? Or are you just pissed because they are clean.

Didn't they Authenticate a whole bunch of fake autos on T206 .
Not so clean.

JohnP

[Frank A]

Originally Posted by JohnP0621

Didn't they Authenticate a whole bunch of fake autos on T206 .
Not so clean.

JohnP

But when they found out, they stopped authenticating auto's. Do you thin PSA will stop authenticating Cards?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Frank A

But when they found out, they stopped authenticating auto's. Do you thin PSA will stop authenticating Cards?

We can only hope.

[BLongley]

Originally Posted by Frank A

But when they found out, they stopped authenticating auto's. Do you thin PSA will stop authenticating Cards?

SGC also bumped some of Gary’s biggest profits with the 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson’s... they definitely have a lower quantity discovered thus far, but they aren’t really any better.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by BLongley

SGC also bumped some of Gary’s biggest profits with the 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson’s... they definitely have a lower quantity discovered thus far, but they aren’t really any better.

I mean, they can't be exactly equally bad, but it's not definitive from the absolute numbers of grading errors revealed to date that PSAs batting average with the doctored cards is worse than SGCs. I would guess it is, but it wouldn't surprise me either way. Certainly PSA has had vastly more plate appearances. That could be because Moser/Brent knew the cards had a better chance of getting through there, but PSA would also give them a better ROI even if they figured the cards had the same chance of getting through with SGC as with PSA.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by BLongley

SGC also bumped some of Gary’s biggest profits with the 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson’s... they definitely have a lower quantity discovered thus far, but they aren’t really any better.

65k bump on a 1914 Joe Jackson just posted as well

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

65k bump on a 1914 Joe Jackson just posted as well

Given the price disparity in the holders, I am wondering if they go to SGC only for cards PSA has actually caught and rejected?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Frank A

But when they found out, they stopped authenticating auto's. Do you thin PSA will stop authenticating Cards?

no, but they are so bad at it or corrupt that they should. Very piss poor company.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by JohnP0621

Didn't they Authenticate a whole bunch of fake autos on T206 .
Not so clean.

JohnP

Not fair to include the autograph authentication with the card grading (SGC).

Do we include PSA/DNA with PSA's incompetence?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Not fair to include the autograph authentication with the card grading (SGC).

Do we include PSA/DNA with PSA's incompetence?

If we are paying for a service that isn't being accurately provided why wouldn't we hold them accountable? If PSA, SGC, or anyone else can't tell the difference between a real or forged signature that's just as bad as being unable to distinguish between an altered or unaltered card.

[Frank A]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

If we are paying for a service that isn't being accurately provided why wouldn't we hold them accountable? If PSA, SGC, or anyone else can't tell the difference between a real or forged signature that's just as bad as being unable to distinguish between an altered or unaltered card.

First of all I find all autograph authenticators worthless. Many years ago I sent in some auto's to what was supposed to be the top authenticator. They came back as fake. Yet when I sent these same auto's to an auction house the same guys authenticated them as good. They are a total joke.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Frank A

First of all I find all autograph authenticators worthless. Many years ago I sent in some auto's to what was supposed to be the top authenticator. They came back as fake. Yet when I sent these same auto's to an auction house the same guys authenticated them as good. They are a total joke.

+1

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Frank A

First of all I find all autograph authenticators worthless. Many years ago I sent in some auto's to what was supposed to be the top authenticator. They came back as fake. Yet when I sent these same auto's to an auction house the same guys authenticated them as good. They are a total joke.

My favorite story is the one I read of a guy who got an auto at a card show, walked over to an authenticator to get it slabbed, and was told it was fake.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

If we are paying for a service that isn't being accurately provided why wouldn't we hold them accountable? If PSA, SGC, or anyone else can't tell the difference between a real or forged signature that's just as bad as being unable to distinguish between an altered or unaltered card.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be held accountable. Of course they should. I'm saying they're two separate issues. We're talking card doctoring, not autograph authentication.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm not saying they shouldn't be held accountable. Of course they should. I'm saying they're two separate issues. We're talking card doctoring, not autograph authentication.

I don't really think we disagree, although I do think it's fair to include incompetence in one area with another. Both issues are relevant and important.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Frank A

For what reason? Or are you just pissed because they are clean.

Bad stuff gets by them too, and they also won't do anything except fall back on "we were right" when they very obviously weren't.

If that's "clean" I guess we define things differently.

[JohnP0621]

Originally Posted by Frank A

For what reason? Or are you just pissed because they are clean.

Check out the other thread that's going on about
SGC crossing over PSA cards and bumping them a few grades and than tell me how clean they are (Cracker Jack Joe Jackson from PSA 2 to SGC 5 after altering )T206 Cobb etc. Just Saying !

John P

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JohnP0621

Check out the other thread that's going on about
SGC crossing over PSA cards and bumping them a few grades and than tell me how clean they are (Cracker Jack Joe Jackson from PSA 2 to SGC 5 after altering )T206 Cobb etc. Just Saying !

John P

So what is the PSA to SGC ratio on bad cards about 2000 to 1?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

So what is the PSA to SGC ratio on bad cards about 2000 to 1?

Probably the same ratio in which they were submitted.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Probably the same ratio in which they were submitted.

I'm also guessing it's pretty close to that.

[JohnP0621]

Originally Posted by bnorth

So what is the PSA to SGC ratio on bad cards about 2000 to 1?

Don't know the Ratio but SGC is not So Clean in all of this mess.Also the Ratio of fake autos that SGC Authenticated is pretty high.
I was only responded to the poster that said SGC was Clean.i Believe they are not .

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JohnP0621

Don't know the Ratio but SGC is not So Clean in all of this mess.Also the Ratio of fake autos that SGC Authenticated is pretty high.
I was only responded to the poster that said SGC was Clean.i Believe they are not .

I talk as much smack as everyone but Ted on how completely incompetent SGC was on autographs.

I wasn't trying to single you out, your post just fit my reply(agenda) about how PSA is WAY worse on grading cards. Seems to me a some are a little too happy to see the few(so far) bad SGC cards show up.

[JohnP0621]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I talk as much smack as everyone but Ted on how completely incompetent SGC was on autographs.

I wasn't trying to single you out, your post just fit my reply(agenda) about how PSA is WAY worse on grading cards. Seems to me a some are a little too happy to see the few(so far) bad SGC cards show up.

Believe me I am not happy about any of this. SGC ,PSA, Beckett etc . Just calling it like it is .

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I talk as much smack as everyone but Ted on how completely incompetent SGC was on autographs.

I wasn't trying to single you out, your post just fit my reply(agenda) about how PSA is WAY worse on grading cards. Seems to me a some are a little too happy to see the few(so far) bad SGC cards show up.

In my estimation, no one should be "happy" that any of the TPGers are as bad at their jobs as the cards outed seem to indicate they are. Disappointed? Yes. Outraged? Maybe, Feel like their trust was betrayed and that they absolutely didn't get what they were promised? OK. People and companies are going to make mistakes. That's inevitable. Its how they respond that matters IMO. That's where the rubber meets the road. Thus far, I have seen nothing that gives me any assurance whatsoever that any of the TPGers are willing to step up and clean up their mess. I guess time will tell, but I am sure not holding my breath.

BTW, when I say "mistake," I am not including PWCC. Mistake implies an accident. As best as I can tell, what PWCC did was not accidental. I sincerely hope that PWCC goes down in flames and that its principals spend time in prison.

[vintagetoppsguy]

This talk about SGC authention is ridiculous. How did we go from card doctoring to autograph authentication? But ok, I'll play too. Fine, SGC authenticators are incompetent. But the one thing I can say is at least the "autographs" were wet ink. But how STUPID do you have to be to authenticate a fascimilie autograph?


http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=Cobb

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'm not quite Nostradamus, but I predict SGC will also get an F.

Sgc has been called out for their auto debacle. F


When I inquired with Tyler about a refund of an obvious forgery, with before and after photos, he wrote "since forgery Is a federal offense, you would need to seek restitution from the FBI" to paraphrase the rest; While you are at it, crack the card out and send us the flip, we will reimburse the grading fee.