Industry participants' response to scandal so far -- report card

[Frank A]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

If we are paying for a service that isn't being accurately provided why wouldn't we hold them accountable? If PSA, SGC, or anyone else can't tell the difference between a real or forged signature that's just as bad as being unable to distinguish between an altered or unaltered card.

First of all I find all autograph authenticators worthless. Many years ago I sent in some auto's to what was supposed to be the top authenticator. They came back as fake. Yet when I sent these same auto's to an auction house the same guys authenticated them as good. They are a total joke.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Frank A

First of all I find all autograph authenticators worthless. Many years ago I sent in some auto's to what was supposed to be the top authenticator. They came back as fake. Yet when I sent these same auto's to an auction house the same guys authenticated them as good. They are a total joke.

+1

[jhs5120]

Unless there are reports that PSA and PWCC haven’t been refunding clients, I don’t believe F and D respectively is appropriate. I could be wrong though.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Unless there are reports that PSA and PWCC haven’t been refunding clients, I don’t believe F and D respectively is appropriate. I could be wrong though.

Sloan specifically said contact the seller, not us. Why should I assume PSA is refunding people? The burden is on them not us at this point. Has anyone indicated PSA refunded them? Has PSA accepted responsibility for ANYTHING? Please.

And how many people have said PWCC refunded them? One guy maybe, or two? Again, with all the nonsense they've pulled off for years, the burden is on them to show their good faith in my eyes. And it wouldn't even be good faith, really, more like desperation.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sloan specifically said contact the seller, not us. Why should I assume PSA is refunding people? The burden is on them not us at this point. Has anyone indicated PSA refunded them? Has PSA accepted responsibility for ANYTHING? Please.

And how many people have said PWCC refunded them? One guy maybe, or two? Again, with all the nonsense they've pulled off for years, the burden is on them to show their good faith in my eyes. And it wouldn't even be in good faith, really, more like desperation.

I have yet to hear anyone vent about not receiving a refund. If PSA was being difficult with victims (many are on this board), I'd imagine we would hear something. Again, I could be wrong, but I'd imagine PSA and/or PWCC are requesting victims sign NDAs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I have yet to hear anyone vent about not receiving a refund. If PSA was being difficult with victims (many are on this board), I'd imagine we would hear something. Again, I could be wrong, but I'd imagine PSA and/or PWCC are requesting victims sign NDAs.

No, a guy just posted yesterday about a PWCC refund, he did not mention an NDA. Why you would give these people the benefit of the doubt at this point, given all that has transpired, after years of fraud and incompetence and coverups, is beyond me, but whatever we all have our perspectives.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No, a guy just posted yesterday about a PWCC refund, he did not mention an NDA. Why you would give these people the benefit of the doubt at this point, given all that has transpired, after years of fraud and incompetence and coverups, is beyond me, but whatever we all have our perspectives.

I saw this quote in someones signature line and I think it fits perfectly.
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No, a guy just posted yesterday about a PWCC refund, he did not mention an NDA. Why you would give these people the benefit of the doubt at this point, given all that has transpired, after years of fraud and incompetence and coverups, is beyond me, but whatever we all have our perspectives.

I look around and see no one complaining about refunds, it's not so much a "benefit of the doubt" as a reasonable guess that people are receiving refunds.

[RedsFan1941]

peter do “other auction houses and dealers” know they are to report to you what they have and haven’t been doing? does pwcc know it’s supposed to keep you posted on refunds it has made? I would assume if you are grading all of these businesses, you have requested they keep you informed so you can make accurate assessments and not ones that are just based on what you’ve heard or read in an auction house’s blog post. otherwise you appear to be trying too hard to stay relevant in this mess.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

peter do “other auction houses and dealers” know they are to report to you what they have and haven’t been doing? does pwcc know it’s supposed to keep you posted on refunds it has made? I would assume if you are grading all of these businesses, you have requested they keep you informed so you can make accurate assessments and not ones that are just based on what you’ve heard or read in an auction house’s blog post. otherwise you appear to be trying too hard to stay relevant in this mess.

Misunderstood your post intiially, sorry. But leaving aside your stupid ad hominem remark, yes I think these hobby leaders (the other AHs and dealers) should be coming forward like a few have done and giving us their perspective. They're not shy about reaching out when they want to promote their auctions, how about reaching out when there is great uncertainty and people don't know what to make of the situation? As for PWCC, they massively breached the public trust to the tune of 70 percent of this forum not dealing with them. The way to try to restore confidence would be by telling the public what they are doing to restore that trust, not secret payments with an NDA.

[oldjudge]

With all due respect to the smaller auction houses, the only statements I'd like to hear are from the Heritages and REAs of the world. The others are not significant in the general scheme of things.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Misunderstood your post intiially, sorry. But leaving aside your stupid ad hominem remark, yes I think these hobby leaders (the other AHs and dealers) should be coming forward like a few have done and giving us their perspective. They're not shy about reaching out when they want to promote their auctions, how about reaching out when there is great uncertainty and people don't know what to make of the situation? As for PWCC, they massively breached the public trust to the tune of 70 percent of this forum not dealing with them. The way to try to restore confidence would be by telling the public what they are doing to restore that trust, not secret payments with an NDA.

PWCC and PSA are making secret payments and securing NDAs? What’s the source for that? And what’s a secret payment?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The way to try to restore confidence would be by telling the public what they are doing to restore that trust, not secret payments with an NDA.

Oh my bad. I thought you suggested that they were making secret payments with an NDA. And how is a payment secret? Like it just ends up in your account without anyone telling you it’s coming?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Frank A

First of all I find all autograph authenticators worthless. Many years ago I sent in some auto's to what was supposed to be the top authenticator. They came back as fake. Yet when I sent these same auto's to an auction house the same guys authenticated them as good. They are a total joke.

My favorite story is the one I read of a guy who got an auto at a card show, walked over to an authenticator to get it slabbed, and was told it was fake.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

My favorite story is the one I read of a guy who got an auto at a card show, walked over to an authenticator to get it slabbed, and was told it was fake.

Funny but on a serious note on the flip side of the altered card stuff there are lots of those sorts of errors in grading as well, that is, perfectly fine cards that get rejected. The consequences are not as serious, but it can be bad news for people trying to earn money selling cards.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Funny but on a serious note on the flip side of the altered card stuff there are lots of those sorts of errors in grading as well, that is, perfectly fine cards that get rejected. The consequences are not as serious, but it can be bad news for people trying to earn money selling cards.

True. I've had PSA reject a card I had just pulled from a cello pack.

[RedsFan1941]

good quote peter. hopefully for your sake it makes it into print somewhere.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

good quote peter. hopefully for your sake it makes it into print somewhere.

I enjoy the snide remarks, please do keep them coming, and thank you for your contributions.