Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

T206Collector · #1 05-31-2019, 08:50 AM

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2361

The Nasty Nati · #2 05-31-2019, 09:48 AM

This guy can really recolor like a pro. Baffled PSA is missing these and so many more recolored ones found on Blowout.

vintagebaseballcardguy · #3 05-31-2019, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2361

Sadly, I would have been happy with that SGC 30 as it was...

T206Collector · #4 05-31-2019, 09:55 AM

I think he�s adding a light gloss to the cards after he recolors, so it doesn�t look like the surface is being touched. He gets �under� the patina that way.

HRBAKER · #5 05-31-2019, 10:29 AM

The hits just keep on coming.
Great work over there on BO.

We're gonna need a bigger boat,.........err, Conservatory.

vintagebaseballcardguy · #6 05-31-2019, 10:29 AM

This is all enough to make me want to exclusively go the beat up ball card route or return to picking up vintage photos that I like (mainly from RMY) and steer clear from this nonsense.

jchcollins · #7 06-03-2019, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

This is all enough to make me want to exclusively go the beat up ball card route or return to picking up vintage photos that I like (mainly from RMY) and steer clear from this nonsense.

Robert - DON�T stop collecting!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

vintagebaseballcardguy · #8 06-03-2019, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Robert - DON�T stop collecting!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No chance of that. As a matter of fact, I bought some sweet RAW T206 this weekend.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

irv · #9 06-03-2019, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy

A sensible response is not to spend $200,000.00 for a 1957 Topps Sandy Koufax or $15,000.00 for a 1980 Topps Rickey Henderson because it's in a PSA 10 holder.

Of course, then, that would have been the sensible thing to do in the first place.

I always assumed those that spent that kind of money had that kind of money?

What I hated to see/read about were those who took out loans or paid the sellers monthly payment amounts in order to get a desired card.

Personally, I've seen some cards that I definitely wanted but due to their price, even if I didn't have to take out a loan, there was just no way I was going to drop that kind of money.

Off topic but does anyone else now view 8's and 9's and especially 10's in a different light?
I was told about some cards for sale currently at an auction house that I looked into. In a lot was a PSA 9 card that of course looked great but in doing so, my first reaction was, it's likely been doctored.

vintagetoppsguy · #10 05-31-2019, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I think he�s adding a light gloss to the cards after he recolors, so it doesn�t look like the surface is being touched. He gets �under� the patina that way.

That makes perfect sense, but it should still fail a blacklight test. Why aren't these high dollar cards being examined under a blacklight? Is an extra 30 seconds in the review process really that much extra effort, especially on high dollar cards?

Peter_Spaeth · #11 05-31-2019, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

That makes perfect sense, but it should still fail a blacklight test. Why aren't these high dollar cards being examined under a blacklight? Is an extra 30 seconds in the review process really that much extra effort, especially on high dollar cards?

I am told he may be using a type of paint or ink hat doesn't show up?

Bigdaddy · #12 05-31-2019, 10:54 AM

For a computer based vision system with machine learning capability, the detection of alterations to cards, whether trimmed edges, recoloring or other alterations, should be easy to detect.

This is a grad student project to put together the system and to 'teach' it with known examples of altered and unaltered cards. You could also give the system rules for grading the cards. No human operator needed (or desired).

vintagetoppsguy · #13 05-31-2019, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

No human operator needed (or desired).

Then who would the card doctors pay the kickbacks to?

Peter_Spaeth · #14 05-31-2019, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Then who would the card doctors pay the kickbacks to?

Someone still has to feed the cards into the machine.

Batpig · #15 05-31-2019, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

For a computer based vision system with machine learning capability, the detection of alterations to cards, whether trimmed edges, recoloring or other alterations, should be easy to detect.

This is a grad student project to put together the system and to 'teach' it with known examples of altered and unaltered cards. You could also give the system rules for grading the cards. No human operator needed (or desired).

I think you�re oversimplifying it. The reason it hasn�t already been done is it is incredibly difficult and complex.

chalupacollects · #16 05-31-2019, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

For a computer based vision system with machine learning capability, the detection of alterations to cards, whether trimmed edges, recoloring or other alterations, should be easy to detect.

This is a grad student project to put together the system and to 'teach' it with known examples of altered and unaltered cards. You could also give the system rules for grading the cards. No human operator needed (or desired).

No not a grad school project. Several ex Microsoft engineers have buddied up with some patent lawyers out of California and already have a pattern on the technology... There are several threads here (more comprehensive - has links to the patent) and also on Blowout... not sure how to search them out but someone will see this and oblige...

Just not sure what they are waiting for to launch??? Maybe an angel investor or VC firm??? I'm sure they can get some seed money off this board alone!

Peter_Spaeth · #17 05-31-2019, 09:02 PM

Gee whiz.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2402

T206Collector · #18 05-31-2019, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

That makes perfect sense, but it should still fail a blacklight test. Why aren't these high dollar cards being examined under a blacklight? Is an extra 30 seconds in the review process really that much extra effort, especially on high dollar cards?

You�re absolutely right:

https://sabrbaseballcards.blog/2017/...uthentication/

drcy · #19 05-31-2019, 11:43 AM

There are current tools, beyond just blacklight, that would identify all added material. They are currently used with art and artifacts.

vintagetoppsguy · #20 05-31-2019, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy

There are current tools, beyond just blacklight, that would identify all added material. They are currently used with art and artifacts.

Thanks! You don't have to explain how the tools work (I probably wouldn't understand anyway

), but how long would it take to use these tools to examine a card? Just wanting to know how much extra time would be involved in the grading process?

Thromdog · #21 05-31-2019, 12:01 PM

Here’s a Cy Young with some work done.....bought in fall 2017 at BST as a PSA 2 and then sold by PWCC as a PSA 3.

There’s at least one other from that auction that was altered and sold by PWCC also.

https://bst-auctions.com/1909_1911_T...A-LOT2936.aspx

joshuanip · #22 05-31-2019, 04:16 PM

Not relevant to post.

steve B · #23 05-31-2019, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

That makes perfect sense, but it should still fail a blacklight test. Why aren't these high dollar cards being examined under a blacklight? Is an extra 30 seconds in the review process really that much extra effort, especially on high dollar cards?

If there's some glosscoat (Or matte clear ) It may block UV. Similarly, not every modern paint/ink will react to UV, so the blacklight won't help as much as it's believed to.

But that's also no reason to not use one. as they can expose a whole laundry list of sins.

perezfan · #24 05-31-2019, 12:18 PM

Well, instead of a blacklight, it appears PSA used a blindfold when examining that Cy Young card.

I wonder if even 1% of these bad cards in PSA Slabs have yet been exposed?

Scott L. · #25 05-31-2019, 12:18 PM

Return a card to PWCC and now your banned.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...-return#latest

perezfan · #26 05-31-2019, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott L.

Return a card to PWCC and now your banned.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...-return#latest

Well, by banning him, PWCC did him a gigantic favor. Gee, PSA overlooked an obvious wrinkle.... shocker!

ullmandds · #27 05-31-2019, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott L.

Return a card to PWCC and now your banned.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...-return#latest

I-N-S-A-N-e!!

Like the child in the neighborhood if you don’t play by their rules they don’t play! Pathetic!

MULLINS5 · #28 06-01-2019, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott L.

Return a card to PWCC and now your banned.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...-return#latest

It is not in PWCC's best interest to deal with people who inspect their purchases.

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