Brent/PWCC interview on recent controversies

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think in 2016 an 8 might have sold -- allegedly -- for that. I will never forget Bill Goodwin touting it as a 200K card. He lost all credibility with me.

I admit that my pricing may be way out of date.

[calvindog]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1531

Here is Brent selling one of Gary Moser’s altered cards and lying by saying it came from a raw set. Interestingly it appears PSA caught this alteration and Brent or Moser had to get it past SGC.

This is about #398 of Brent doing good things for the hobby if anyone is counting.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1531

Here is Brent selling one of Gary Moser’s altered cards and lying by saying it came from a raw set. Interestingly it appears PSA caught this alteration and Brent or Moser had to get it past SGC.

This is about #398 of Brent doing good things for the hobby if anyone is counting.

Raw COLLECTION, not set. LOL I guess you could call a group of altered cards a collection.

[Republicaninmass]

Poor Brent, these card doctors keep nailing him to the cross.

If Brent said it came from a raw set, he subbed it?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Poor Brent, these card doctors keep nailing him to the cross.

If Brent said it came from a raw set, he subbed it?

Another spot on...

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by calvindog

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1531

Here is Brent selling one of Gary Moser’s altered cards and lying by saying it came from a raw set. Interestingly it appears PSA caught this alteration and Brent or Moser had to get it past SGC.

This is about #398 of Brent doing good things for the hobby if anyone is counting.

+1 spot on....Unbelievable.....

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by calvindog

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1531

Here is Brent selling one of Gary Moser’s altered cards and lying by saying it came from a raw set. Interestingly it appears PSA caught this alteration and Brent or Moser had to get it past SGC.

This is about #398 of Brent doing good things for the hobby if anyone is counting.

I remember doing business with Brent in the late 90's when I believe he was playing high school football.....He has really stepped up his game

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I remember doing business with Brent in the late 90's when I believe he was playing high school football.....He has really stepped up his game

I wonder whose cards he was selling way back then.

[calvindog]

It’s times like this I miss Jay Behrens on the board.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

It’s times like this I miss Jay Behrens on the board.

He loved piñatas, as I recall.

[Leon]

It is times like this I wish you would text more.

Originally Posted by calvindog

It’s times like this I miss Jay Behrens on the board.

[brad31]

I read that description on the Hornsby as PWCC knowing whom it came form and then subbing the card on his behalf. To me this now gets to the level where PWCC shares more blame than SGC on this card or PSA on cards they submitted to them.

Knowing this card comes from Gary Moser and actually submitting it on his behalf because he is presumably on a “no submission” list from The TPGs is purposely trying to get an altered card through. He is using his reputation and clout as a large customer of the grading companies to add credibility to an altered card. While this card is not trimmed like the others something was certainly done to remove the discolorations.

Up until this point I was thinking the TPGs were primarily at fault. Now I put it more at 50-50. I was a customer of PWCC - I am going to spend my $ elsewhere now. I am certainly not a large customer by their standards - but if enough smaller fish (a few grand a year) stop buying from them it may hurt their bottom line at least a little bit.

I hope I was not duped with any of my purchases from them. I am sure all large sellers have unknowingly sold altered cards - but this seems more shady than that.

Edited to add name per request from Leon: Brad Sherlag

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Leon

It is times like this I wish you would text more.

That's funny.... We love ya Leon.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Originally Posted by calvindog

It’s times like this I miss Jay Behrens on the board.

Most people that are on Net 54 have no idea who my brother is (Some days I wish the same. :-)) and the choas he could drum up.

Lee Behrens

[brad31]

In assigning blame I neglected to mention the person who doctored the card.

Card Doctor = perpetrator - 50%

PWCC = facilitator (until vouching for the collection the raw card that they submitted came from in the card’s write-up thought they were the first victim) - 25%

TPG - first victim but is in business to find these - 24%

Collector who was duped and bought the card - 1% - main victim - but most of us see a beautiful card and want to believe it somehow was well preserved for all this time. To me this collector has the obligation to present back to the TPG if made aware and try to collect on the guarantee and hopefully end the string. For this to happen the TPG needs to keep or destroy the card. Otherwise....

Someone cracks out - resubmits - TPG misses it and the cycle repeats.

To me PSA as the largest TPG should be looking ahead to try and better stop this. They should be scanning every graded card. They should invest in software that matches a card to the same card if in their database. The likely match photos should be given to the graders. This is likely years away but if they cannot do what the sleuths that comb through worthpoint can do at some point - then their credibility will go away. Until that time they need to use these cards as training material for their graders and look at if their throughout expectations allow for sufficient time to see some of these. They will never be perfect - but hopefully they strive to get better. This is what their business is built on and hopefully they understand that and are investing in continuous improvement.

Each time a fraudster’s EBay buyer ID is discovered, the sleuths find scores of examples of alterations from the same person that slipped through the TPGs. This over time leaves a bad taste for more and more collectors.

I do not post here very often but did bid and lose on one of the cards that was exposed. I resisted graded cards until it seemed like there were few raw higher grade cards of HOF from the 50’s and 60’s. As the proportion swung it seemed like there must be something wrong with anything raw even if I cannot see it. I believe I have the ability and knowledge to look at a raw card and assess a grade. I do not believe I have the knowledge to find alterations. That is what I pay a premium for graded cards to do on my behalf. I love this hobby and my collection. I am sure I have altered cards. If one of mine ever shows up I plan on contacting the TPG.

These posts are one collectors opinion on this latest grouping of permanently damaged cards.

Brad Sherlag