Brent/PWCC interview on recent controversies

[brad31]

In assigning blame I neglected to mention the person who doctored the card.

Card Doctor = perpetrator - 50%

PWCC = facilitator (until vouching for the collection the raw card that they submitted came from in the card’s write-up thought they were the first victim) - 25%

TPG - first victim but is in business to find these - 24%

Collector who was duped and bought the card - 1% - main victim - but most of us see a beautiful card and want to believe it somehow was well preserved for all this time. To me this collector has the obligation to present back to the TPG if made aware and try to collect on the guarantee and hopefully end the string. For this to happen the TPG needs to keep or destroy the card. Otherwise....

Someone cracks out - resubmits - TPG misses it and the cycle repeats.

To me PSA as the largest TPG should be looking ahead to try and better stop this. They should be scanning every graded card. They should invest in software that matches a card to the same card if in their database. The likely match photos should be given to the graders. This is likely years away but if they cannot do what the sleuths that comb through worthpoint can do at some point - then their credibility will go away. Until that time they need to use these cards as training material for their graders and look at if their throughout expectations allow for sufficient time to see some of these. They will never be perfect - but hopefully they strive to get better. This is what their business is built on and hopefully they understand that and are investing in continuous improvement.

Each time a fraudster’s EBay buyer ID is discovered, the sleuths find scores of examples of alterations from the same person that slipped through the TPGs. This over time leaves a bad taste for more and more collectors.

I do not post here very often but did bid and lose on one of the cards that was exposed. I resisted graded cards until it seemed like there were few raw higher grade cards of HOF from the 50’s and 60’s. As the proportion swung it seemed like there must be something wrong with anything raw even if I cannot see it. I believe I have the ability and knowledge to look at a raw card and assess a grade. I do not believe I have the knowledge to find alterations. That is what I pay a premium for graded cards to do on my behalf. I love this hobby and my collection. I am sure I have altered cards. If one of mine ever shows up I plan on contacting the TPG.

These posts are one collectors opinion on this latest grouping of permanently damaged cards.

Brad Sherlag

[bounce]

Originally Posted by brad31

To me this collector has the obligation to present back to the TPG if made aware and try to collect on the guarantee and hopefully end the string. For this to happen the TPG needs to keep or destroy the card. Otherwise....

That's not really how the guarantee works, does it? They give you the difference in value between what it says and what it really is.

Why couldn't you keep the money and the card reslabbed as whatever it should say (presumably altered in most of these instances)?

Yes, leaves open the possibility that it makes it back into circulation, but that's really the issue at the TPG.

I don't see destroying the card as an option unless the current owner just says "here take it back." I guess at that point the TPG could do what they want.

[brad31]

I would rather have the whole value from the TPG. I do not knowingly collect altered cards and my fear is if I sold it it would end up in a graded holder again in the future. If they gave me the card back As my only choice I would have to sell it in the altered holder and hope it stays that way.

I think the TPG would be better off keeping the card stamping it altered and using it to train their graders. I know this will probably never happen.

[jchcollins]

Good grief, go read the comments over on the actual YouTube video...they mirror some of the threads here. PWCC at this point is delusional if they think anything good is going to come from this "conservation" sham.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Good grief, go read the comments over on the actual YouTube video...they mirror some of the threads here. PWCC at this point is delusional if they think anything good is going to come from this "conservation" sham.

Most -- not all -- are smart and savvy enough to see right through it.

[D. Bergin]

Confused a bit here. I've skimmed through this entire thread, even did a word search on my computer, but haven't exactly stayed up to date on all the other threads on this subject.

It seems like Brent and PWCC keep using the word "conservation", when they should really be using the word "restoration", because that's what's really going on with most of these cards.

If he want's to push this agenda at least use the right terms. It's something that's perfectly acceptable in other hobbies and collectible fields, as long as it's disclosed..........and then the market decides what those things are actually worth in comparison to the originals.

Conservation indicates you're using some sort of process to keep the item from being damaged to begin with. Like putting it in a slab, or a plastic sheet, or coating it with rust protector.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yes this has been noted many times, he can't even get the vocabulary right. Or it's deliberate misuse of the word, because conservation sounds so benign and well intentioned.