McLain and Sain…..Perfect together.....Should Johnny Sain be in the Hall of Fame ?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Bram99

What about Allie Reynolds. Sain’s teammate for a stretch with Yankees.

Sain was above average as a pitcher but not great.

Though I like the thought that Sain was a great pitching coach, I think it’s unlikely he would be inducted as a pitching coach.

Allie Reynolds should be next up if any additional pitcher from that golden era (my favorite era) gets in. Allie was a winner and did anything needed to win championships.

Reynolds started and relieved in the same seasons and was one of the best in the league as a starter and a reliever within the same year, and the same World Series several times.

Sain was very good. Allie was great. Super chief!

Hi Tony

I second your comments regarding Allie Reynolds. He was a great starting Pitcher....and, Casey Stengel would also bring him in as a Relief pitcher.

Reynolds is 7 - 2 (W-L) in World Series play.... with 4 Saves.


I still remember the 1951 season when Allie pitched 2 no-hitters. After the 2nd no-hitter, Yankees broadcaster Mel Allen began calling Allie the “ Super Chief " .





TED Z

T206 Reference
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[oldjudge]

"I saw him Pitch (1947-1955) and I followed his Coaching career (1961-1975)…. and unless you did too, you're not knowledgeable enough to form an opinion."

Then why ask the question, Ted? It's already the Hall of Really Good. Do you want to make it the Hall of Pretty Good?
And in answer to your question about 1961, Ford won 25 games because he had his most starts ever(Casey Stengel was gone and Ralph Houk let Ford pitch every fourth day and the season went from 154 to 162 games), had a great run producing team, and had two expansion clubs join the AL. His ERA was the highest of his career.

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Tony

I second your comments regarding Allie Reynolds. He was a great starting Pitcher....and, Casey Stengel would also bring him in as a Relief pitcher.

Reynolds is 7 - 2 (W-L) in World Series play.... with 4 Saves.


I still remember the 1951 season when Allie pitched 2 no-hitters. After the 2nd no-hitter, Yankees broadcaster Mel Allen began calling Allie the “ Super Chief " .





TED Z

T206 Reference
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I will buy those two cards pictured!

[packs]

The "I saw him play" argument only gets you so far sometimes. None of us saw Babe Ruth play but I don't think you had to for you to know the player he was.

[bbcard1]

I am on a facebook group where we argue about Hall of Famers...in fact, that's all the group is about. There are a handful of people from our national game...Sain, Buck O'Neil, Lefty O'Doul...who made significant contributions but do not fit neatly into the established pigeonholes of the Hall of Fame. They have significant contributions in certain areas, but enough to warrant inclusion as a player. Their work as an ambassador, coach, etc. is just not something that has been considered...not to say that it shouldn't be.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

I am on a facebook group where we argue about Hall of Famers...in fact, that's all the group is about. There are a handful of people from our national game...Sain, Buck O'Neil, Lefty O'Doul...who made significant contributions but do not fit neatly into the established pigeonholes of the Hall of Fame. They have significant contributions in certain areas, but enough to warrant inclusion as a player. Their work as an ambassador, coach, etc. is just not something that has been considered...not to say that it shouldn't be.

What's the Facebook Group? I love debating this issue.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by packs

The "I saw him play" argument only gets you so far sometimes. None of us saw Babe Ruth play but I don't think you had to for you to know the player he was.

As a kid, I read books about Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Hal Chase, Ted Williams, etc., etc....so I agree essentially with your statement.

However, I am old enough to have followed BB since 1947. And, my memory of having seen BB events from the years 1947 - 1970's
is excellent. Furthermore, I was an avid reader of The Sporting News during those years. And, there are times (while reading) posts
on this forum where I have to laugh at comments which I know are from someone who has not bothered to become informed.

I am not trying to be "boastful", but having seen BB players perform, and subsequently having conversations with them has provided
me a valuable insight into these ballplayers.

I could fill up pages on Net54, if I were to post all the conversations I have had with many of the players of that era (1947-1970's).
Conversations I've had in Cooperstown, at BB card Shows, at their homes, and even on airplane flights.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[packs]

I never discount people's opinions who saw someone play because it is really annoying to talk to someone about X player and hear a bunch of stats being quoted by the person who didn't spend every day of their life watching a guy play. I get into it all the time with Yankees and players like Jorge Posada and Bernie Williams (criminally underrated and ignored by HOF voters). It's hard to point to some stat that will tell you Bernie was the man when it came to winning and needing to get the big hit. But that's exactly who he was. So I get it completely.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by packs

I never discount people's opinions who saw someone play because it is really annoying to talk to someone about X player and hear a bunch of stats being quoted by the person who didn't spend every day of their life watching a guy play. I get into it all the time with Yankees and players like Jorge Posada and Bernie Williams (criminally underrated and ignored by HOF voters). It's hard to point to some stat that will tell you Bernie was the man when it came to winning and needing to get the big hit. But that's exactly who he was. So I get it completely.

Packs

I really appreciate your comments here.

In the same vain......I think you'll find this interesting. Back in the mid-1980's, I'm watching Monday nite BB (ABC-TV). Yankees were
featured, and Howard Cosell was "ragging" on Butch Wynegar to the effect that he "was not worthy of wearing the Yankees uniform".

In the prior week, Wynegar's Dad had passed away. Listening to Cosell got me so ticked-off that the next day I called the ABC sports
department. And told them how disgusting Cosell was on the Monday nite broadcast. My call was on speakerphone at the ABC station.
Suddenly, I'm listening to Cosell's "ugly" voice, as he picked up the phone. He was obnoxious as usual, telling me that "I was a typical
Yankees fan who is prejudiced". I responded by telling him in effect that "he should hang it up". He slammed down the phone.

Butch Wynegar went on to have a great week at bat (hitting HR's, driving in Runs). By that Friday, Cosell went on his usual 5:30 PM
(5-minute) ABC Radio broadcast and apologized for his negative comments on Wynegar earlier that week on Monday nite BB.


TED Z
.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by tedzan

In the same vain.....

definition of a freudian slip