McLain and Sain…..Perfect together.....Should Johnny Sain be in the Hall of Fame ?

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

114 wins by age 25? That's incredible! Wonder if anyone has exceeded that.

Well Bob Feller did (137) and he also had two years in military service as well by then. But he is in the HOF

[clydepepper]

The idea of inducting a pitching coach is intriguing, no doubt.

Assistant Coaches are not given their due in any sport - the awards always go to the Managers and Head Coaches.

There have been some noteworthy hitting coaches as well.

Davey Lopes maybe the best 'specialty' coach of All-Time - but he'll never make it.

Ron Washington is making some headway in Atlanta as a specialist in infield defense.

Scouts are given plenty of legendary story-lines of 'landing the big one', but get stiffed as well.

Johnny Sain, as Mr. Z has recounted, is one of the few pitching coaches who 'created' success several times in several different cities and that sets him apart from others making the same efforts.

All that being said, I think we're railing at windmills with this discussion.
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[Fred]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

The idea of inducting a pitching coach is intriguing, no doubt.

Well, they better push Leo Mazzone to the front of the line if they're looking at inducting pitching coaches. Brent Strom had a great year (this year - 2018) with Houston as the pitching coach.

[G1911]

He was 139-116, with a 3.49 ERA (107 ERA+), 3.66 FIP, and 1.300 WHIP. He actually had more seasons with an ERA below the league average, then he did above. He was fantastic in 1946 and 1948, but if that's enough then I can't wait for Tim Lincecum's induction.

If he makes the Hall of Fame as a pitcher, we would probably need to induct another ~125 pitchers alongside him.

Nobody has ever been inducted into the Hall of Fame as a coach. If they started doing this, one could make a case that Sain should be considered, but that is also true for 50 other people.

Sain isn't a Hall of Famer. He doesn't barely miss the cut off. By any statistical based argument, he does not make it. He was a good pitcher who lived an interesting life, which is a fine legacy indeed

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by Bram99

Well Bob Feller did (137) and he also had two years in military service as well by then. But he is in the HOF

Matty had 127 wins by his 25th birthday (August 12, 1905) and 150 wins through the end of his age-25 season (1906). Walter Johnson had 115 wins by his 25th birthday (November 6, 1912) and 151 wins through the end of his age-25 season (1913). McLain's 114 wins were through the end of his age-25 season (1969); by his 25th birthday, he "only" had 90 wins. The five pitchers to get 100 wins by their 25th birthday were Matty, WaJo, Feller (107), Smoky Joe Wood (102), and Doc Gooden (100). Three HOFers and two flameouts.

https://www.sporcle.com/games/sweett...-before-age-25

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...athech01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ohnswa01.shtml