Wen is enough PSA Shame on you!!!

[irv]

I know many defend PSA, and I get that, but the things I have seen in my relatively short time here on Net54 is enough for me to think I'll likely never send anything into PSA to get graded.

Ex, many grades that don't make sense, card corner reset/glued down and placed back in its original holder, Dimaggio tape stain/doctored card, swimming coach graded as if he were Ruth, the Honus Wagner card, etc, etc.

I get it that mistakes happen and I get how busy they likely are, but when people are spending huge amounts of money on grading, these types of things shouldn't be happening, imo.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by irv

I know many defend PSA, and I get that, but the things I have seen in my relatively short time here on Net54 is enough for me to think I'll likely never send anything into PSA to get graded.

I have never sent anything in personally, because that would likely be the last thing to cause me to totally lose my mind on raw cards that I have owned for a long time, and know every single detail of the flaws they have already. I buy PSA vintage online mainly for a point of reference with the grade and my price point, and to ensure that - figuring most times they are at least going to be in the right ballpark - a card doesn't have a hidden crease, or some other drastic flaw which is hard to spot that might lead to an otherwise 7 card grading a 3 or 4. I collect cards like that for eye-appeal over price, but don't want to pay ridiculous prices. For at least that much, I think TPG's are on the whole reputable. But yes, the consistency issues that PSA has across the board - would be very troublesome I would think for hardcore collectors.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The very fact that they have long delays is proof of their success. People are submitting in record numbers. Like Yogi said, nobody goes there any more, it's too crowded. Barring an epic scandal, IMO PSA will continue to dominate the industry.

[swarmee]

PSA can get away with a bunch of errors because they fix them for free, including shipping both ways. They also have a lot more errors because their volume dwarfs that of SGC nowadays. But if you point them out, they'll hang their hat, accept blame, and get it corrected. Half the stuff that gets pointed out happened 15 years ago. All grading companies make mistakes.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by swarmee

PSA can get away with a bunch of errors because they fix them for free, including shipping both ways. They also have a lot more errors because their volume dwarfs that of SGC nowadays. But if you point them out, they'll hang their hat, accept blame, and get it corrected. Half the stuff that gets pointed out happened 15 years ago. All grading companies make mistakes.

Funny stuff! When are they going to correct Cert # 00000001?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Funny stuff! When are they going to correct Cert # 00000001?

On the 13th of never.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Funny stuff! When are they going to correct Cert # 00000001?

Amen. People at a minimum should realize that the very first card they ever graded was a disaster. If that card had been in an "A" slab what would it have sold for? PSA is ostensibly the authentication and grading "experts." Yet when asked why that was not caught, David Hall of PSA's explanation? "It doesn't look trimmed to me." Seriously? WTF!?! Nice detailed "expert" explanation.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Funny stuff! When are they going to correct Cert # 00000001?

When the owner sends it in.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by swarmee

When the owner sends it in.

That's just it though, the owner does not have to send it in to be corrected on PSA's end. I have seen (many times) where PSA made a mistake on the label and the owner refuses to send the card in and PSA either corrects it in their database or removes the card from their database. Why can't PSA do it with this one?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The very fact that they have long delays is proof of their success. People are submitting in record numbers. Like Yogi said, nobody goes there any more, it's too crowded. Barring an epic scandal, IMO PSA will continue to dominate the industry.

From an economic standpoint that's true. That being said, my personal opinion is that PSA is about 60% hype, 40% service. I think they are overrated for what they do. Granted the reality of the situation is that assigning hard grades in a process that by it's nature will never be anything but subjective is a tall order. The trick is convincing people you do it well. Clearly, PSA still has the majority of their customers convinced. Just not me.

[ALR-bishop]

While I do not collect graded stuff I fully get the allure and draw of the Registry to many collectors. But if the market is big enough ( do not know if it really is ) then history would indicate some well financed major competitor at some point will give it a go.

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

While I do not collect graded stuff I fully get the allure and draw of the Registry to many collectors. But if the market is big enough ( do not know if it really is ) then history would indicate some well financed major competitor at some point will give it a go.

Biggest problem I see with this scenario is that there is already tens of millions of dollars invested in grading with PSA. Getting someone to crossover tons of cards, complete set collectors for example, is going to just be too expensive imo. Now, I could see it over a long period of time if said company was so much better and more cost effective and everyone started to gravitate there as sets are broken down and sold off.

As far as the love/hate with tpg, I believe it has been very educational. While we know that the pop reports are not accurate, for myself, it has still been eye opening over the years. My example, maybe 15 years ago I started on a quest to build a PSA 8 70-71 Topps basketball set as I couldn't afford the 69's in that grade and I really like the tallboys. Well, when you are putting together a raw set, you may know the short prints that are a little more difficult or certain common cards that might be a little more difficult to find but you will settle for something that is lower grade because it is not a superstar. But what hit me, and my wallet, was finding that some of these cards were virtually impossible to find in high grade, centered, no print dots, etc. This is something that the experienced collector might know that has been collecting a certain set for years but not someone new to either the hobby or a particular series. While it's not exact, it's still a pretty good reference, even if you only collect raw, to know what obstacles you might face collecting a particular card or set.
Anyhow, that's just my opinion. Good discussion and happy collecting to all!
Tim

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Biggest problem I see with this scenario is that there is already tens of millions of dollars invested in grading with PSA. Getting someone to crossover tons of cards, complete set collectors for example, is going to just be too expensive imo. Now, I could see it over a long period of time if said company was so much better and more cost effective and everyone started to gravitate there as sets are broken down and sold off.

As far as the love/hate with tpg, I believe it has been very educational. While we know that the pop reports are not accurate, for myself, it has still been eye opening over the years. My example, maybe 15 years ago I started on a quest to build a PSA 8 70-71 Topps basketball set as I couldn't afford the 69's in that grade and I really like the tallboys. Well, when you are putting together a raw set, you may know the short prints that are a little more difficult or certain common cards that might be a little more difficult to find but you will settle for something that is lower grade because it is not a superstar. But what hit me, and my wallet, was finding that some of these cards were virtually impossible to find in high grade, centered, no print dots, etc. This is something that the experienced collector might know that has been collecting a certain set for years but not someone new to either the hobby or a particular series. While it's not exact, it's still a pretty good reference, even if you only collect raw, to know what obstacles you might face collecting a particular card or set.
Anyhow, that's just my opinion. Good discussion and happy collecting to all!
Tim

Agreed it has been educational. Again, I'm not totally against TPG's, I just think there is still a lot of room for improvement.