Wen is enough PSA Shame on you!!!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by swarmee

PSA can get away with a bunch of errors because they fix them for free, including shipping both ways. They also have a lot more errors because their volume dwarfs that of SGC nowadays. But if you point them out, they'll hang their hat, accept blame, and get it corrected. Half the stuff that gets pointed out happened 15 years ago. All grading companies make mistakes.

Funny stuff! When are they going to correct Cert # 00000001?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Funny stuff! When are they going to correct Cert # 00000001?

On the 13th of never.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Funny stuff! When are they going to correct Cert # 00000001?

Amen. People at a minimum should realize that the very first card they ever graded was a disaster. If that card had been in an "A" slab what would it have sold for? PSA is ostensibly the authentication and grading "experts." Yet when asked why that was not caught, David Hall of PSA's explanation? "It doesn't look trimmed to me." Seriously? WTF!?! Nice detailed "expert" explanation.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Funny stuff! When are they going to correct Cert # 00000001?

When the owner sends it in.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by swarmee

When the owner sends it in.

That's just it though, the owner does not have to send it in to be corrected on PSA's end. I have seen (many times) where PSA made a mistake on the label and the owner refuses to send the card in and PSA either corrects it in their database or removes the card from their database. Why can't PSA do it with this one?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

That's just it though, the owner does not have to send it in to be corrected on PSA's end. I have seen (many times) where PSA made a mistake on the label and the owner refuses to send the card in and PSA either corrects it in their database or removes the card from their database. Why can't PSA do it with this one?

Because to do so in this particular case would be front page hobby news, and would create nothing but negative publicity for PSA. Some might give them credit for being "honest" after all this time, sure - but it would re-ignite the whole debate again and they don't want that. This was almost the perfect storm: Yes, they screwed up on the very first card they ever put in a slab - but it just happened to be the single most famous and expensive card in the entire hobby - and even in the $hitstorm that eventually ensued - the card did not lose value. Not by a long shot.

Personally, I believe that PSA would have had a lot more trouble had the story about Bill Mastro come out at the time of the Gretzky-McNall sale, or shortly thereafter in the months that followed. But it didn't - took years and even decades I think before that was all later proven. So yeah, we now have proof based on what they got off a wire I believe from jailbird Mastro and what he admitted to doing - but PSA sheepishly still stands by tongue-in-cheek claiming that the card is a PSA 8 and not an A. Whatever, I get it. It's the perfect storm because this card is an anomaly if there ever was one. Even if trimmed it's still going to be worth millions of dollars because of the publicity and the controversy. Even if trimmed, it's easily the most eye-appealing copy of the Wagner card known to the hobby.

So bottom line, PSA got lucky. Is it a fair question theoretically why they haven't gone and updated the grade in the database? Of course. But realistically? Not in a million years...

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Because to do so in this particular case would be front page hobby news, and would create nothing but negative publicity for PSA. Some might give them credit for being "honest" after all this time, sure - but it would re-ignite the whole debate again and they don't want that. This was almost the perfect storm: Yes, they screwed up on the very first card they ever put in a slab - but it just happened to be the single most famous and expensive card in the entire hobby - and even in the $hitstorm that eventually ensued - the card did not lose value. Not by a long shot.

Personally, I believe that PSA would have had a lot more trouble had the story about Bill Mastro come out at the time of the Gretzky-McNall sale, or shortly thereafter in the months that followed. But it didn't - took years and even decades I think before that was all later proven. So yeah, we now have proof based on what they got off a wire I believe from jailbird Mastro and what he admitted to doing - but PSA sheepishly still stands by tongue-in-cheek claiming that the card is a PSA 8 and not an A. Whatever, I get it. It's the perfect storm because this card is an anomaly if there ever was one. Even if trimmed it's still going to be worth millions of dollars because of the publicity and the controversy. Even if trimmed, it's easily the most eye-appealing copy of the Wagner card known to the hobby.

So bottom line, PSA got lucky. Is it a fair question theoretically why they haven't gone and updated the grade in the database? Of course. But realistically? Not in a million years...

Understood, I just thought what John said was amusing, "But if you point them out, they'll hang their hat, accept blame, and get it corrected." I have never, ever, ever, ever seen PSA admit blame...never, ever, ever for anything. Sure they may fix their mistake at no cost, cover shipping both ways, etc., but I have watched time after time, year after year PSA try to sweep anything negative under the rug. To say they hang their hat and accept blame is laughable.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Understood, I just thought what John said was amusing, "But if you point them out, they'll hang their hat, accept blame, and get it corrected." I have never, ever, ever, ever seen PSA admit blame...never, ever, ever for anything. Sure they may fix their mistake at no cost, cover shipping both ways, etc., but I have watched time after time, year after year PSA try to sweep anything negative under the rug. To say they hang their hat and accept blame is laughable.

Yeah totally agreed. They'll accept blame if they screw something up on a $50 card. But anything that would actually make waves - never.

[jchcollins]

Here's another example - anyone remember the post from last year I think - a Gretzky rookie in a PSA 8 case had a back corner that was flipped up, obvious layering - 100%. Should have been like a 5 or a 6 on that card at the most. It was pretty on the front, even with the messed-up corner on the back. Anyhow, long post here on Net54 - the OP sent it back and what did PSA do? Took the card out of the slab, flipped the corner back down much like I would have done at age 11 with a random card I was trying to put into a toploader. Then put it back into a new slab, put the PSA 8 flip back on, and sent it back to OP saying "no 'permanent' damage" or some other nonsense BS.

Whaaaa....? A card with a badly layered corner - no matter how pretty or how difficult that corner is to notice - is not a PSA 8!

Just saying it's very easy to break your own rules when there is incentive, and probably doubly-so in a company where the very first card they ever graded was fraudulent.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

That's just it though, the owner does not have to send it in to be corrected on PSA's end. I have seen (many times) where PSA made a mistake on the label and the owner refuses to send the card in and PSA either corrects it in their database or removes the card from their database. Why can't PSA do it with this one?

And yet in your other post you are screaming at PSA for not correcting their mistakes. A bit inconsistent, no?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And yet in your other post you are screaming at PSA for not correcting their mistakes. A bit inconsistent, no?

Huh? What are you talking about? I've always said PSA should correct their mistakes. I'm saying it here too. Where did I say otherwise???