Indians to remove chief Wahoo stating in 2019

[vintagetoppsguy]

Next...

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Next...

Good for you. At least now we all know

[Peter_Spaeth]

It is an obnoxious logo and it's probably long overdue that they lost it. That said, of course symbolic gestures like these aren't going to do a heck of a lot to solve the devastating problems facing many Native Americans. In that regard, although it's decades old now, Gary Smith wrote a brilliant piece in Sports Illustrated about a basketball player who for a time left the reservation to play for a small college, and the difficulties he faced including being stigmatized by many of his people.

[prewarsports]

The name "Indians" was an early attempt to honor a Native American star (Louis Sockalexis) in the 1910's and hearken back to the 1890's when the Cleveland team was good and he was the centerpiece of the squad. Removing the logo is fine, but I think changing the name of this team would be a mistake. Create a new logo that honors the heritage instead.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

The name "Indians" was an early attempt to honor a Native American star (Louis Sockalexis) in the 1910's and hearken back to the 1890's when the Cleveland team was good and he was the centerpiece of the squad. Removing the logo is fine, but I think changing the name of this team would be a mistake. Create a new logo that honors the heritage instead.

I just learned something. Thank you.

[Blackie]

delete......please remove Leon ......

[Orioles1954]

Can we please end this thread now?

[mattsey9]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Can we please end this thread now?

This.

[timn1]

Leon, whether you end the thread or not, you should remove this post. Tthis guy has crossed any and all lines. Nothing else in the thread (even though I argued with some of it) has been anything like this. Doesn’t belong here.

Tim

Originally Posted by Blackie

I am native american and registered out of Oklahoma.......its very sad. Must be some democratic bull crap.......im not offended at all. If anything very proud of my heritage. The state of the union right now is depressing be it that liberals and snow flakes have paid to have the voice on the Communist news network CNN etc. The economy is better than ever and still CLOWNS like Nancy "i just pissed my pants" Pelosi have a say...........very sad. America wake up. Stand for the flag and knee for the Cross. Just my 10 cents but im a combat vet so im gonna say what i want.

[Blackie]

Originally Posted by timn1

Leon, whether you end the thread or not, you should remove this post. Tthis guy has crossed any and all lines. Nothing else in the thread (even though I argued with some of it) has been anything like this. Doesn’t belong here.

Tim

Post removed Tim...........wishes granted.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by timn1

Leon, whether you end the thread or not, you should remove this post. Tthis guy has crossed any and all lines. Nothing else in the thread (even though I argued with some of it) has been anything like this. Doesn’t belong here.

Tim

Just in for the evening. I agree Tim.
Blackie (hi Blackie) has deleted his message. He knows not to talk politics. If you delete your quoting it we are back to square one. I think he let his feelings get ahold of him.
Blackie has been a really great member and this would have been an infraction. Since he removed it we'll make it an informal warning and move on. I am a second chance kind of guy.

[prewarsports]

In regards to using an image of Louis Sockalexis.... he is the one they named the team after so he only has to represent himself, not all Indians.

[ejharrington]

I'm offended, the New York Americans should change their name:


1. Yan·kee
[ˈyaNGkē]

NOUN
informal
Yankees (plural noun)
1. derogatory
a person who lives in, or is from, the US.
2. US
an inhabitant of New England or one of the northern states.
3. a code word representing the letter Y, used in radio communication.
4. sailing
a large jib set forward of a staysail in light winds.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

I'm offended, the New York Americans should change their name:


1. Yan·kee
[ˈyaNGkē]

NOUN
informal
Yankees (plural noun)...

4. sailing
a large jib set forward of a staysail in light winds.

If I were a Yankees fan I would object to being associated with a large jib set forward of a staysail in light winds. I would vote to change the team name to "New York Northeast Americans", as geographically this just plain makes sense, and would rid the team of the negative sailing connotations associated with light winds.

Brian

[Stampsfan]

This thread has the potential to go off the rails big time. Let's all play nice, boys.

I feel that if the people that could potentially be offended are bringing this up, that would be the best barometer to gauge a change. A bunch of rich middle aged white guys making this decision, IMHO, limits the credibility and smacks of political correctness. Is there an outcry from our Native American brethren? I simply don't know.

There are so many comparatives that we've all heard, including the Blackhawks (who were named in honor of Chief Black Hawk), and even the Eskimos in our little football league up here. But the angle I best remember (and wish it was my original thought) was something I read a couple of years ago around the "Fightin' Irish". There is what could be interpreted as a poor characterization of Irish folks by the logo, and insinuation that they are all a bunch of lewd, scrappers. However, nobody is up in arms about that one one because the Irish have a sense of humor.

I agree, a bunch of middle aged white guys shouldn't be deciding what is or isn't offensive to others. This applies to pretty much everything

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I agree, a bunch of middle aged white guys shouldn't be deciding what is or isn't offensive to others. This applies to pretty much everything

I agree. So let the Native Americans speak for themselves.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.1183ae35b0f7

By the way, the Indians are being massive babies about this on Facebook. I posted a vulgar-free, factual comment using the article above, and they marked it as SPAM. I'm PO'd as a diehard Indians fan. Rob Manfred can kiss my rear end, too, which is what the spineless Paul Dolan should have told him to do.


KEEP THE CHIEF

[packs]

The issue is not about polling it's about treating people with respect regardless of whether X number of people think you should. Also this article is about the name "Redskins" and not related at all to the Chief Wahoo logo.

[TobaccoKing4]

I'm not happy about Wahoo being removed, but I wonder if there will be a name change in the future. I think it'd be cool if they went back to being the Cleveland Spiders, or even cooler if they took the name of the Cleveland Naps.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Middle aged white guys are sometimes the agents of revolutionary change. Abraham Lincoln, for one. Earl Warren and the Supreme Court, for another. Lyndon Johnson and the Civil Rights Act.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Middle aged white guys are sometimes the agents of revolutionary change. Abraham Lincoln, for one. Earl Warren and the Supreme Court, for another. Lyndon Johnson and the Civil Rights Act.

LOL! Peter, you had me until your LBJ reference. He was a racist! Already had this discussion with someone else on Friday, so I am very well equipped to defend my position on that one.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

LOL! Peter, you had me until your LBJ reference. He was a racist! Already had this discussion with someone else on Friday, so I am very well equipped to defend my position on that one.

David, he doubtless was for much of his life, but he changed. Read the incredible speech to Congress where the punch line is his adoption of the "We Shall Overcome" lyric.

[drcy]

Irrelevant to political/racial issues and whether or not the name 'Indians' itself is reverent, it's a rather stupid and outdated cartoon logo, and teams alter and change their logos all the time. My various favorite teams have changed their logos and designs regularly during my fandom-- sometimes to my aesthetic disappointment. I wish the Milwaukee Brewers had kept their 'ball in glove' logo.

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

David, he doubtless was for much of his life, but he changed. Read the incredible speech to Congress where the punch line is his adoption of the "We Shall Overcome" lyric.

Sorry Pete but he was quoted as saying “we’re gonna have these n-word’s voting for democrats for the next hundred years!”

Perhaps a skilled politician but a terrible man.

[Stampsfan]

As predicted, this has done nothing but go off the rails.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am reminded of one of the most pathetic sights I ever have seen -- Jane Fonda doing the tomahawk chop.

I don't know why, especially today, we give any credibility to anyone in Hollywood. With the sh*t that has gone on there, especially lately, why anyone from that industry has any credibility is sad.

When Leonardo DiCaprio was up here filming The Revenant, we had a wind go through here over the Rockies called a "chinook". With it comes warm winds from the Pacific, and warms up our winter days, giving us tempertures into the 50's and 60's (F). This guy goes on to post how he's finally seen Global Warming up close. While his campaign to stop green house gas emissions, and to save the environment are admirable, he still flies around on his private jet using fuel that would otherwise not be emitted into the atmosphere.

Now lately on MSN, there is an article on the size of his yacht. How does he possibly power that?

I'm not here to defend or protest Global Warming; I get a bit rankled when Hollywood types spew their ignorant opinions (Jane Fonda too) and then leave a larger environmentally damaging footprint than the average person.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

This thread has the potential to go off the rails big time. Let's all play nice, boys.

I feel that if the people that could potentially be offended are bringing this up, that would be the best barometer to gauge a change. A bunch of rich middle aged white guys making this decision, IMHO, limits the credibility and smacks of political correctness. Is there an outcry from our Native American brethren? I simply don't know.

There are so many comparatives that we've all heard, including the Blackhawks (who were named in honor of Chief Black Hawk), and even the Eskimos in our little football league up here. But the angle I best remember (and wish it was my original thought) was something I read a couple of years ago around the "Fightin' Irish". There is what could be interpreted as a poor characterization of Irish folks by the logo, and insinuation that they are all a bunch of lewd, scrappers. However, nobody is up in arms about that one one because the Irish have a sense of humor.

Native Americans have demonstrated on Opening Day every year since 1973.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Native Americans have demonstrated on Opening Day every year since 1973.

I was at the Super Bowl when the Redskins played the Bills. There was a very large and vocal protest.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by packs

Native Americans have demonstrated on Opening Day every year since 1973.

A SMALL NUMBER OF Native Americans have demonstrated on Opening Day every year since 1973.