Indians to remove chief Wahoo stating in 2019

Stampsfan · #1 01-29-2018, 01:51 PM

This thread has the potential to go off the rails big time. Let's all play nice, boys.

I feel that if the people that could potentially be offended are bringing this up, that would be the best barometer to gauge a change. A bunch of rich middle aged white guys making this decision, IMHO, limits the credibility and smacks of political correctness. Is there an outcry from our Native American brethren? I simply don't know.

There are so many comparatives that we've all heard, including the Blackhawks (who were named in honor of Chief Black Hawk), and even the Eskimos in our little football league up here. But the angle I best remember (and wish it was my original thought) was something I read a couple of years ago around the "Fightin' Irish". There is what could be interpreted as a poor characterization of Irish folks by the logo, and insinuation that they are all a bunch of lewd, scrappers. However, nobody is up in arms about that one one because the Irish have a sense of humor.

#2 01-29-2018, 01:55 PM

I agree, a bunch of middle aged white guys shouldn't be deciding what is or isn't offensive to others. This applies to pretty much everything

CollectingAmericasPastime · #3 01-29-2018, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I agree, a bunch of middle aged white guys shouldn't be deciding what is or isn't offensive to others. This applies to pretty much everything

I agree. So let the Native Americans speak for themselves.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.1183ae35b0f7

By the way, the Indians are being massive babies about this on Facebook. I posted a vulgar-free, factual comment using the article above, and they marked it as SPAM. I'm PO'd as a diehard Indians fan. Rob Manfred can kiss my rear end, too, which is what the spineless Paul Dolan should have told him to do.

KEEP THE CHIEF

packs · #4 01-29-2018, 03:01 PM

The issue is not about polling it's about treating people with respect regardless of whether X number of people think you should. Also this article is about the name "Redskins" and not related at all to the Chief Wahoo logo.

TobaccoKing4 · #5 01-29-2018, 03:09 PM

I'm not happy about Wahoo being removed, but I wonder if there will be a name change in the future. I think it'd be cool if they went back to being the Cleveland Spiders, or even cooler if they took the name of the Cleveland Naps.

drcy · #6 01-29-2018, 03:12 PM

The Spiders would be cool.

Bonus point to anyone who know what movie that image comes from.

Cliff Bowman · #7 01-29-2018, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy

The Spiders would be cool.

Bonus point to anyone who know what movie that image comes from.

Like OJ, I'll take a stab at it. Tarantula (1955)?

Dewey2007 · #8 01-29-2018, 03:22 PM

As an American Indian I am glad to see the Chief Wahoo symbol go as iconic as it is to many. I am not opposed to them keeping the name Indians if they should consider getting rid of that to. If they were smart they would reach out to the local tribes in the area and see what they can come up in terms of a symbol that is non-offensive and represents the local tribes of the area. Something they should have done long ago. I think that would be a win-win for both the tribes and the team.

vintagetoppsguy · #9 01-29-2018, 03:26 PM

Being of Irish descent, I am offended by the Boston Celtics branding of a leprechaun in their logo. It's insensitive and stereotypical to Irish people. Who do I contact to have it removed?

Edited to add: And while we're at it, can I get that little leprechaun from ND removed too? That's just as offensive to me with his little fists raised in the air like he's ready to fight. Fighting Irish? I'm a lover, not a fighter.

perezfan · #10 01-29-2018, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobaccoKing4

I'm not happy about Wahoo being removed, but I wonder if there will be a name change in the future. I think it'd be cool if they went back to being the Cleveland Spiders, or even cooler if they took the name of the Cleveland Naps.

They won�t do something cool like that. They don�t want to offend anything or anyone in the Arachnid or LaJoie Family. In this era, it�s always a benign/cheap nickname that wins out... often not ending in an �s�. The WFL pretty much started this awful trend (Shreveport Steamer, Southern California Sun). And ever since, it�s just gotten worse.

Maybe they could follow Stanford�s lead. I know the name �Cardinal� is already taken, but perhaps they could be the �Cleveland Scarlet�. They could wear plain red hats, and a name like that could strike some fear into their opponents.

Perfect for a bland society!

Peter_Spaeth · #11 01-29-2018, 01:55 PM

Middle aged white guys are sometimes the agents of revolutionary change. Abraham Lincoln, for one. Earl Warren and the Supreme Court, for another. Lyndon Johnson and the Civil Rights Act.

vintagetoppsguy · #12 01-29-2018, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Middle aged white guys are sometimes the agents of revolutionary change. Abraham Lincoln, for one. Earl Warren and the Supreme Court, for another. Lyndon Johnson and the Civil Rights Act.

LOL! Peter, you had me until your LBJ reference. He was a racist! Already had this discussion with someone else on Friday, so I am very well equipped to defend my position on that one.

Peter_Spaeth · #13 01-29-2018, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

LOL! Peter, you had me until your LBJ reference. He was a racist! Already had this discussion with someone else on Friday, so I am very well equipped to defend my position on that one.

David, he doubtless was for much of his life, but he changed. Read the incredible speech to Congress where the punch line is his adoption of the "We Shall Overcome" lyric.

drcy · #14 01-29-2018, 02:33 PM

Irrelevant to political/racial issues and whether or not the name 'Indians' itself is reverent, it's a rather stupid and outdated cartoon logo, and teams alter and change their logos all the time. My various favorite teams have changed their logos and designs regularly during my fandom-- sometimes to my aesthetic disappointment. I wish the Milwaukee Brewers had kept their 'ball in glove' logo.

ronniehatesjazz · #15 01-29-2018, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy

Irrelevant to political/racial issues and whether or not the name 'Indians' itself is reverent, it's a rather stupid and outdated cartoon logo, and teams alter and change their logos all the time. My various favorite teams have changed their logos and designs regularly during my fandom-- sometimes to my aesthetic disappointment. I wish the Milwaukee Brewers had kept their 'ball in glove' logo.

Agree on all points

ronniehatesjazz · #16 01-29-2018, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

David, he doubtless was for much of his life, but he changed. Read the incredible speech to Congress where the punch line is his adoption of the "We Shall Overcome" lyric.

Sorry Pete but he was quoted as saying �we�re gonna have these n-word�s voting for democrats for the next hundred years!�

Perhaps a skilled politician but a terrible man.

vintagetoppsguy · #17 01-29-2018, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

Sorry Pete but he was quoted as saying �we�re gonna have these n-word�s voting for democrats for the next hundred years!�

Perhaps a skilled politician but a terrible man.

You're very close, but he actually said 200 years. I was going to say this, even had my response typed out, but I didn't want to hijack the thread, nor did I want it to become political.

Peter_Spaeth · #18 01-29-2018, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

Sorry Pete but he was quoted as saying �we�re gonna have these n-word�s voting for democrats for the next hundred years!�

Perhaps a skilled politician but a terrible man.

I read Robert Caro's biography. I came away believing he changed. Nothing and nobody forced him to become the relentless champion of civil rights that he became as President.

Stampsfan · #19 01-30-2018, 02:31 PM

As predicted, this has done nothing but go off the rails.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am reminded of one of the most pathetic sights I ever have seen -- Jane Fonda doing the tomahawk chop.

I don't know why, especially today, we give any credibility to anyone in Hollywood. With the sh*t that has gone on there, especially lately, why anyone from that industry has any credibility is sad.

When Leonardo DiCaprio was up here filming The Revenant, we had a wind go through here over the Rockies called a "chinook". With it comes warm winds from the Pacific, and warms up our winter days, giving us tempertures into the 50's and 60's (F). This guy goes on to post how he's finally seen Global Warming up close. While his campaign to stop green house gas emissions, and to save the environment are admirable, he still flies around on his private jet using fuel that would otherwise not be emitted into the atmosphere.

Now lately on MSN, there is an article on the size of his yacht. How does he possibly power that?

I'm not here to defend or protest Global Warming; I get a bit rankled when Hollywood types spew their ignorant opinions (Jane Fonda too) and then leave a larger environmentally damaging footprint than the average person.

Peter_Spaeth · #20 01-30-2018, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

As predicted, this has done nothing but go off the rails.

I don't know why, especially today, we give any credibility to anyone in Hollywood. With the sh*t that has gone on there, especially lately, why anyone from that industry has any credibility is sad.

When Leonardo DiCaprio was up here filming The Revenant, we had a wind go through here over the Rockies called a "chinook". With it comes warm winds from the Pacific, and warms up our winter days, giving us tempertures into the 50's and 60's (F). This guy goes on to post how he's finally seen Global Warming up close. While his campaign to stop green house gas emissions, and to save the environment are admirable, he still flies around on his private jet using fuel that would otherwise not be emitted into the atmosphere.

Now lately on MSN, there is an article on the size of his yacht. How does he possibly power that?

I'm not here to defend or protest Global Warming; I get a bit rankled when Hollywood types spew their ignorant opinions (Jane Fonda too) and then leave a larger environmentally damaging footprint than the average person.

I once read an analysis of the carbon footprint left by Al Gore, it was hysterical.

orly57 · #21 01-30-2018, 03:01 PM

Kyle, I love your passion for your team man, but it's a logo. They aren't moving your team to Baltimore. As mentioned previously, teams change logos all the time. You can love your team and still acknowledge that the caricature is insulting to a group of people whose land was taken, whose ancestors were slaughtered, and who were discriminated for centuries. This isn't about correctness, it's about common decency and respect for fellow Americans of a different heritage. My god, you have a fellow board member telling you it hurts him. Isnt that more important than a stupid logo?

chalupacollects · #22 01-30-2018, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

As predicted, this has done nothing but go off the rails.

I don't know why, especially today, we give any credibility to anyone in Hollywood. With the sh*t that has gone on there, especially lately, why anyone from that industry has any credibility is sad.

When Leonardo DiCaprio was up here filming The Revenant, we had a wind go through here over the Rockies called a "chinook". With it comes warm winds from the Pacific, and warms up our winter days, giving us tempertures into the 50's and 60's (F). This guy goes on to post how he's finally seen Global Warming up close. While his campaign to stop green house gas emissions, and to save the environment are admirable, he still flies around on his private jet using fuel that would otherwise not be emitted into the atmosphere.

Now lately on MSN, there is an article on the size of his yacht. How does he possibly power that?

I'm not here to defend or protest Global Warming; I get a bit rankled when Hollywood types spew their ignorant opinions (Jane Fonda too) and then leave a larger environmentally damaging footprint than the average person.

+10000000 - Any and all Hollywood "activists" should really just stay silent and go away. Most of their thinking is that if they play to the greater good, everyone will like them and buy their entertainment making them rich beyond there dreams.. its not really that they care its a marketing ploy..

As for Leo, not only does Leo fly around in his $50 million dollar jet that seats 18, he usually only has a couple of people with him... his efforts on global warming are admirable though he should practice what he preaches. And that aircraft burns about 2500 gallons of fuel coast to coast... and he is not the only one in the Hollywood crowd doing that so... take their posturing for what its worth...

Sorry for the hijack...

packs · #23 01-29-2018, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

This thread has the potential to go off the rails big time. Let's all play nice, boys.

I feel that if the people that could potentially be offended are bringing this up, that would be the best barometer to gauge a change. A bunch of rich middle aged white guys making this decision, IMHO, limits the credibility and smacks of political correctness. Is there an outcry from our Native American brethren? I simply don't know.

There are so many comparatives that we've all heard, including the Blackhawks (who were named in honor of Chief Black Hawk), and even the Eskimos in our little football league up here. But the angle I best remember (and wish it was my original thought) was something I read a couple of years ago around the "Fightin' Irish". There is what could be interpreted as a poor characterization of Irish folks by the logo, and insinuation that they are all a bunch of lewd, scrappers. However, nobody is up in arms about that one one because the Irish have a sense of humor.

Native Americans have demonstrated on Opening Day every year since 1973.

Peter_Spaeth · #24 01-29-2018, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Native Americans have demonstrated on Opening Day every year since 1973.

I was at the Super Bowl when the Redskins played the Bills. There was a very large and vocal protest.

ejharrington · #25 01-29-2018, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Native Americans have demonstrated on Opening Day every year since 1973.

A SMALL NUMBER OF Native Americans have demonstrated on Opening Day every year since 1973.

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