Indians to remove chief Wahoo stating in 2019

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Middle aged white guys are sometimes the agents of revolutionary change. Abraham Lincoln, for one. Earl Warren and the Supreme Court, for another. Lyndon Johnson and the Civil Rights Act.

LOL! Peter, you had me until your LBJ reference. He was a racist! Already had this discussion with someone else on Friday, so I am very well equipped to defend my position on that one.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

LOL! Peter, you had me until your LBJ reference. He was a racist! Already had this discussion with someone else on Friday, so I am very well equipped to defend my position on that one.

David, he doubtless was for much of his life, but he changed. Read the incredible speech to Congress where the punch line is his adoption of the "We Shall Overcome" lyric.

[drcy]

Irrelevant to political/racial issues and whether or not the name 'Indians' itself is reverent, it's a rather stupid and outdated cartoon logo, and teams alter and change their logos all the time. My various favorite teams have changed their logos and designs regularly during my fandom-- sometimes to my aesthetic disappointment. I wish the Milwaukee Brewers had kept their 'ball in glove' logo.

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by drcy

Irrelevant to political/racial issues and whether or not the name 'Indians' itself is reverent, it's a rather stupid and outdated cartoon logo, and teams alter and change their logos all the time. My various favorite teams have changed their logos and designs regularly during my fandom-- sometimes to my aesthetic disappointment. I wish the Milwaukee Brewers had kept their 'ball in glove' logo.

Agree on all points

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

David, he doubtless was for much of his life, but he changed. Read the incredible speech to Congress where the punch line is his adoption of the "We Shall Overcome" lyric.

Sorry Pete but he was quoted as saying “we’re gonna have these n-word’s voting for democrats for the next hundred years!”

Perhaps a skilled politician but a terrible man.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

Sorry Pete but he was quoted as saying “we’re gonna have these n-word’s voting for democrats for the next hundred years!”

Perhaps a skilled politician but a terrible man.

You're very close, but he actually said 200 years. I was going to say this, even had my response typed out, but I didn't want to hijack the thread, nor did I want it to become political.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

Sorry Pete but he was quoted as saying “we’re gonna have these n-word’s voting for democrats for the next hundred years!”

Perhaps a skilled politician but a terrible man.

I read Robert Caro's biography. I came away believing he changed. Nothing and nobody forced him to become the relentless champion of civil rights that he became as President.

[Stampsfan]

As predicted, this has done nothing but go off the rails.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am reminded of one of the most pathetic sights I ever have seen -- Jane Fonda doing the tomahawk chop.

I don't know why, especially today, we give any credibility to anyone in Hollywood. With the sh*t that has gone on there, especially lately, why anyone from that industry has any credibility is sad.

When Leonardo DiCaprio was up here filming The Revenant, we had a wind go through here over the Rockies called a "chinook". With it comes warm winds from the Pacific, and warms up our winter days, giving us tempertures into the 50's and 60's (F). This guy goes on to post how he's finally seen Global Warming up close. While his campaign to stop green house gas emissions, and to save the environment are admirable, he still flies around on his private jet using fuel that would otherwise not be emitted into the atmosphere.

Now lately on MSN, there is an article on the size of his yacht. How does he possibly power that?

I'm not here to defend or protest Global Warming; I get a bit rankled when Hollywood types spew their ignorant opinions (Jane Fonda too) and then leave a larger environmentally damaging footprint than the average person.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

As predicted, this has done nothing but go off the rails.



I don't know why, especially today, we give any credibility to anyone in Hollywood. With the sh*t that has gone on there, especially lately, why anyone from that industry has any credibility is sad.

When Leonardo DiCaprio was up here filming The Revenant, we had a wind go through here over the Rockies called a "chinook". With it comes warm winds from the Pacific, and warms up our winter days, giving us tempertures into the 50's and 60's (F). This guy goes on to post how he's finally seen Global Warming up close. While his campaign to stop green house gas emissions, and to save the environment are admirable, he still flies around on his private jet using fuel that would otherwise not be emitted into the atmosphere.

Now lately on MSN, there is an article on the size of his yacht. How does he possibly power that?

I'm not here to defend or protest Global Warming; I get a bit rankled when Hollywood types spew their ignorant opinions (Jane Fonda too) and then leave a larger environmentally damaging footprint than the average person.

I once read an analysis of the carbon footprint left by Al Gore, it was hysterical.

[orly57]

Kyle, I love your passion for your team man, but it's a logo. They aren't moving your team to Baltimore. As mentioned previously, teams change logos all the time. You can love your team and still acknowledge that the caricature is insulting to a group of people whose land was taken, whose ancestors were slaughtered, and who were discriminated for centuries. This isn't about correctness, it's about common decency and respect for fellow Americans of a different heritage. My god, you have a fellow board member telling you it hurts him. Isnt that more important than a stupid logo?

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by orly57

Kyle, I love your passion for your team man, but it's a logo. They aren't moving your team to Baltimore. As mentioned previously, teams change logos all the time. You can love your team and still acknowledge that the caricature is insulting to a group of people whose land was taken, whose ancestors were slaughtered, and who were discriminated for centuries. This isn't about correctness, it's about common decency and respect for fellow Americans of a different heritage. My god, you have a fellow board member telling you it hurts him. Isnt that more important than a stupid logo?

And this is where the rules on the board prohibit further discussion. I can't go much further without getting political, which is where this discussion is at, so this is what I will end with.

I do not believe I have said anything disrespectful regarding Native Americans, or the fellow board member's heritage/family. I believe we are having a debate on a sports forum regarding a sports logo. If the logo is meaningless, why is it a big deal to those who want to get rid of it, since it's apparently stupid for me to care about a stupid logo? The same passion for those who want to get rid of it is shared by those who want to keep it. If I went through life worrying about everything little thing someone might take offense to, or what they might consider to be a microaggression, why leave my house? I know what my beliefs and morals are. I know the nature of my intentions. Believe me, if I was trying to be hurtful or disrespectful, you would know. I just think as a society we've become too soft, too quick to feel offended and react in favor of those who are offended. I'm sick and tired of being told how to think, what to believe, and what is or isn't morally right, when I know how to think for myself and I'm confident in the good nature of my beliefs and morals. I'm also sick and tired of society trying to erase history over some sort of guilt they feel.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

As predicted, this has done nothing but go off the rails.



I don't know why, especially today, we give any credibility to anyone in Hollywood. With the sh*t that has gone on there, especially lately, why anyone from that industry has any credibility is sad.

When Leonardo DiCaprio was up here filming The Revenant, we had a wind go through here over the Rockies called a "chinook". With it comes warm winds from the Pacific, and warms up our winter days, giving us tempertures into the 50's and 60's (F). This guy goes on to post how he's finally seen Global Warming up close. While his campaign to stop green house gas emissions, and to save the environment are admirable, he still flies around on his private jet using fuel that would otherwise not be emitted into the atmosphere.

Now lately on MSN, there is an article on the size of his yacht. How does he possibly power that?

I'm not here to defend or protest Global Warming; I get a bit rankled when Hollywood types spew their ignorant opinions (Jane Fonda too) and then leave a larger environmentally damaging footprint than the average person.

+10000000 - Any and all Hollywood "activists" should really just stay silent and go away. Most of their thinking is that if they play to the greater good, everyone will like them and buy their entertainment making them rich beyond there dreams.. its not really that they care its a marketing ploy..

As for Leo, not only does Leo fly around in his $50 million dollar jet that seats 18, he usually only has a couple of people with him... his efforts on global warming are admirable though he should practice what he preaches. And that aircraft burns about 2500 gallons of fuel coast to coast... and he is not the only one in the Hollywood crowd doing that so... take their posturing for what its worth...

Sorry for the hijack...