T206 Who should be a HOFer that isn't ???

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by FourStrikes

Topps206 = mic drop.

DS

It just makes my blood boil. Justice for Dahlen and Magee. Justice for Gavvy and Doyle. Bill Dineen contributed so much as both an umpire and a pitcher and he hasn't been inducted yet.

I'm just so mad they'll only be considered once a decade. I'm also convinced Babe Adams is worthy of enshrinement. I would beg to be on the Early Baseball committee in 2020, but who ever said Hall of Fame voters were logical folk?

[Topps206]

How does this forum feel about Jimmy Sheckard and Cooperstown?

[Jantz]

My vote

[Topps206]

He wasn't actually in the T206 set.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Topps206

How does this forum feel about Jimmy Sheckard and Cooperstown?

I believe Sheckard is worth talking about.

Cravath should be in
Dinneen probably should be as well for his all round


How about Fielder Jones????

[darwinbulldog]

Sorry if I missed them above, but I don't think anyone's mentioned Overall, Schulte, or Latham. Not that I really think they belong in the Hall (Overall isn't even eligible), but I think they were as good as most of the folks that have been mentioned in this thread.

Dahlen is the only one in T206 who deserves it as a player and hasn't been enshrined yet. Dinneen is a good pick for total contributions to the game.

The best pre-steroid era guys who haven't gotten in yet are Jim McCormick, Bob Caruthers, and Shoeless Joe.

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Sorry if I missed them above, but I don't think anyone's mentioned Overall, Schulte, or Latham. Not that I really think they belong in the Hall (Overall isn't even eligible), but I think they were as good as most of the folks that have been mentioned in this thread.

Dahlen is the only one in T206 who deserves it as a player and hasn't been enshrined yet. Dinneen is a good pick for total contributions to the game.

The best pre-steroid era guys who haven't gotten in yet are Jim McCormick, Bob Caruthers, and Shoeless Joe.

Overall didn't pitch long enough. Schulte had an amazing 1911, but it takes more than one Hall of Fame season to be a Hall of Fame player.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Topps206

Overall didn't pitch long enough. Schulte had an amazing 1911, but it takes more than one Hall of Fame season to be a Hall of Fame player.

I agree with everything you wrote, and I retract nothing of what I wrote.

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I agree with everything you wrote, and I retract nothing of what I wrote.

Who was Schulte as good as? He was no Sherry Magee. That's for sure.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Sorry if I missed them above, but I don't think anyone's mentioned Overall, Schulte, or Latham. Not that I really think they belong in the Hall (Overall isn't even eligible), but I think they were as good as most of the folks that have been mentioned in this thread.

Dahlen is the only one in T206 who deserves it as a player and hasn't been enshrined yet. Dinneen is a good pick for total contributions to the game.

The best pre-steroid era guys who haven't gotten in yet are Jim McCormick, Bob Caruthers, and Shoeless Joe.

And Bob Johnson...

Tom C

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

And Bob Johnson...

Tom C

If Indian Bob Johnson were playing today would he be called Native American Bob Johnson?

[Topps206]

I feel like I'm in the middle here on this topic. There are some players not in the Hall from the set I think should be in. Some standards are too stingy. Others advocate for terrible choices, in my opinion.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Sorry if I missed them above, but I don't think anyone's mentioned Overall, Schulte, or Latham. Not that I really think they belong in the Hall (Overall isn't even eligible), but I think they were as good as most of the folks that have been mentioned in this thread.

Dahlen is the only one in T206 who deserves it as a player and hasn't been enshrined yet. Dinneen is a good pick for total contributions to the game.

The best pre-steroid era guys who haven't gotten in yet are Jim McCormick, Bob Caruthers, and Shoeless Joe.

I like Latham. He's an interesting and good choice and is certainly in the category worth mentioning as the others.

Not so sure about Orval.

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

I like Latham. He's an interesting and good choice and is certainly in the category worth mentioning as the others.

Not so sure about Orval.

Imagine putting Vince Coleman in the Hall of Fame. That basically sums up Latham.

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

I believe Sheckard is worth talking about.

Cravath should be in
Dinneen probably should be as well for his all round


How about Fielder Jones????

I wouldn't be bothered by Sheckard getting inducted, but I'm not a cheeeleader for him, either. Sherry Magee absolutely must get in before we can start even thinking about Sheckard.

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

I believe Sheckard is worth talking about.

Cravath should be in
Dinneen probably should be as well for his all round


How about Fielder Jones????

I see nothing spectacular about Fielder Jones. Nice player. Nothing special.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Topps206

I see nothing spectacular about Fielder Jones. Nice player. Nothing special.

Player Manager of the "Hitless Wonders" I know it's a bit of a stretch but I'm surprised that his name is never mentioned. Posted a 426-293 managerial record. Pretty good win%

Like Dinneen I'm for his interactions in baseball besides a player. Donie Bush?????

No love for him? Considered one of the top fielding SS's in baseball in his day over 1,800 hits.

A Manager
A Owner
A Scout
An Executive

You can't get more versatile than that can you?

[CMIZ5290]

Jimmy Sheckard? .270 career batting average with just over 2,000 hits in 17 years? Really? You were the guys busting my balls about Ed Reulbach, better re-group.....I dont get this choice at all.....

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Player Manager of the "Hitless Wonders" I know it's a bit of a stretch but I'm surprised that his name is never mentioned. Posted a 426-293 managerial record. Pretty good win%

Like Dinneen I'm for his interactions in baseball besides a player. Donie Bush?????

No love for him? Considered one of the top fielding SS's in baseball in his day over 1,800 hits.

A Manager
A Owner
A Scout
An Executive

You can't get more versatile than that can you?

Lots of managers with more wins and more championships aren't in.

[Topps206]

So, going back to the first page of the thread, many have been listed from the T206 set potentially being HOF worthy. I'm going to split this up in different categories. These are only my opinions.

Hall of Fame worthy

Bill Dahlen - One of the best players not in the Hall of Fame from any era at any position. The VC really messed up in December. Was terrific offensively and defensively and helped his teams win four pennants in his career. His 44 game hitting streak is second only to Joe DiMaggio among right handed batters. Nobody in history played more games at the time he retired and his longevity still holds today.

Sherry Magee - 4x RBI champ, hit very well in all of those seasons. Metrics rank him well and it can be argued he's better than many leftfielders already in. He could do it all and has been erroneously overlooked.

Larry Doyle - The best second baseman in the National League during his time. He was also the best position player on the Giants during their winning of multiple pennants. One came during an MVP season in 1912 and would probably be a World Champion had it not been for Snodgrass' Muff. Just as how Sherry Magee is arguably a top 15 leftfielder ever, I think Doyle could be top 15 all time at second.

Gavvy Cravath - I get the argument against him, but he absolutely dominated during his short peak.

Bill Dinneen - As a pitcher alone he is not a Hall of Famer, but when you combine his pitching career with his umpiring career, it's hard to justify his exclusion.

Could go either way

Jimmy Sheckard - He wasn't that bad of a player and worth doing more research on. No way should he get in before Sherry Magee, but a future induction would hardly taint Cooperstown.

Not Hall of Fame worthy

Deacon Philippe - I changed my mind here
I think Reulbach was better and I wouldn't put Reulbach in. Out of those Pirate teams, only Babe Adams deserves it and he's not in the set.

Ed Reulbach - Just falls short for me.

George Mullin - Would challenge Rube Marquard for the title of the worst pitcher inducted.

Fielder Jones - Nothing stands out.

Wildfire Schulte - If one season made you a Hall of Famer, he'd have been one of the earliest inductees of an overcrowded Hall.

Chief Meyers - Good, just below ten seasons, however.

Tommy Leach - You could pretty much categorize him in the Hall of Mistakes that the Frisch Committee monopolized. Though Cuyler could stay in my personal Hall.

Johnny Kling - He could be the worst catcher in the HOF and would be one of the worst players at any position.

Hal Chase and Ed Konetchy - I would just focus on modern era first basemen, with Konetchy probably being closer to deserving.

George Gibson and Jimmy Archer - You know have no business being worthy of Hall discussion when Johnny Kling looks good by comparison.


Again, these are only my opinions. I thought I'd respond to a majority of the names listed here.

[FourStrikes]

Originally Posted by Topps206

How does this forum feel about Jimmy Sheckard and Cooperstown?

NO Gil Hodges??? NO Dale Murphy? NO Keith Hernandez? NO (insert many far-more-deserving names here, but...)

p.s. I know none of the above are T206, but, just for the sake of argument...sorry, just not feelin' it for Sheckard - UNLESS I was sittin' on a binder full of T206 Sheckard (there's exceptions to every "accepted" rule, ya know???)

JMO

DS

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by FourStrikes

NO Gil Hodges??? NO Dale Murphy? NO Keith Hernandez? NO (insert many far-more-deserving names here, but...)

p.s. I know none of the above are T206, but, just for the sake of argument...sorry, just not feelin' it for Sheckard - UNLESS I was sittin' on a binder full of T206 Sheckard (there's exceptions to every "accepted" rule, ya know???)

JMO

DS

The only one you just mentioned who would get my support for Cooperstown is Hernandez.

Honestly before I started collecting the Monster many of these players I never heard of. I knew the big names like Wagner, Cobb, Plank, Mathewson, Johnson, basically all the Hall of Famers. I also knew of the likes of Dahlen, Magee, Cravath. I couldn't tell you anything about them, but I knew the name. I had no clue who Larry Doyle or Jimmy Sheckard were. This set taught me them and also I learned they were fantastic players.

[bbcard1]

there are lots of problems with the hall of fame, but that's what makes in interesting. If you use the worst player in the hall of fame as the litmus test for who belongs, pretty much everyone north of David Eckstien has an argument. making it more complex, winning 220 games in the 1980s is very different than willing 220 games in 1910 and will be exceedingly different than winning 220 games in 2020, just as hitting 500 homers in the 1930s or 40s is different than doing it in the 1990s. Plus the argument are you ranking players for their longevity or their pinnacle? That's what makes it a good argument.

[Topps206]

How good were they during their pimnacle? How long enough did they play? What position were they?

These are all questions to ask, too.

[packs]

I think the true test should be: was this person one of the three best players at their position during their career? If the answer is yes, then I don't see how that person isn't a HOFer. In the case of Larry Doyle, he was unquestionably the best second baseman of his time. So how is he not a HOFer?

Pitchers would be a different story because at any given time there could be an infinite amount of top pitchers. I wouldn't use the top three as an indicator for them.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by FourStrikes

NO Gil Hodges??? NO Dale Murphy? NO Keith Hernandez? NO (insert many far-more-deserving names here, but...)

p.s. I know none of the above are T206, but, just for the sake of argument...sorry, just not feelin' it for Sheckard - UNLESS I was sittin' on a binder full of T206 Sheckard (there's exceptions to every "accepted" rule, ya know???)

JMO

DS

+1 on Sheckard big time....

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by FourStrikes

NO Gil Hodges??? NO Dale Murphy? NO Keith Hernandez? NO (insert many far-more-deserving names here, but...)

p.s. I know none of the above are T206, but, just for the sake of argument...sorry, just not feelin' it for Sheckard - UNLESS I was sittin' on a binder full of T206 Sheckard (there's exceptions to every "accepted" rule, ya know???)

JMO

DS

Dale Murphy was my favorite player growing up, but sadly his career took too much of a nose dive due to injuries to be a HOF'er. Hall of very good yes, but doesn't measure up to the HOF standard.