Proposed Change to Lessen Manipulative Bidding/Conversation with PWCC/Input Wanted

[iwantitiwinit]

Aren't these changes ebay would have to enact not PWCC? If thats the case I don't know any of this even matters.

[FirstYearCards]

Like Robert's name implies (iwantitiwinit). If you want the card, buy it. If you are putting in an early bid and it gets bid up, you are involved in the game the shill is playing. Don't play the game! Snipe or put in your bid early(what you value the card at) and be done with it.

[ALR-bishop]

I would favor eBay limiting retractions and suspending someone who exceeded the limit, which should be a minimal number. If one eBay seller adopts such a policy I applaud the seller but to be effective it has to be an eBay initiative in the end.

I too snipe and thus do not pay more than I am wiling to venture, but serial retractors would seem to raise prices in general....and they are annoying people

[begsu1013]

again, some people intentionally bid up in small increments til they top out and then retract SOLELY to drive away other perspective bidders.

manipulation is happening, simply not as widespread as everyone that missed the boat thinks though. still have yet to see one lick of solitary proof other than he said, she said.

concentrate on your game. not their's.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by FirstYearCards

Like Robert's name implies (iwantitiwinit). If you want the card, buy it. If you are putting in an early bid and it gets bid up, you are involved in the game the shill is playing. Don't play the game! Snipe or put in your bid early(what you value the card at) and be done with it.

To me there is a big difference between a shill bidder and a bidder who reneges (retracts - basically same thing.)

A shill bidder is just another person you have to bid against if you want to win an item. If the bidding gets too high, drop out. If the shill bidder tries to push your bid up further but you decide not to do so, the joke, and expenses, are on him.

Someone who bids and reneges is either a shill bidder who is not willing to pay the consequences of failing to push your bid higher, or he does so in order to gain private information - namely, what the max bid is. In the first scenario you're bidding against a ghost who is trying to maximize what you will pay, while running no risk of expense himself, and in the other, he is basically making your max bid public information.

So ask yourself, when you place a max bid, would it bother you if the AH knew what it was? Would it bother you if everyone seriously watching that item knew what it was?

Somebody wants to shill bid me I don't care, as long as he/she pays when I don't take the bait. People who retract (renege) on their bids are cheating and it is a problem.

[FirstYearCards]

I really couldn't care less who knows what my max bid is. If I bid on a card and its pushed up to the max, that's what I'm willing to pay. Nobody told me to bid more than I wanted to.

If I do plan on the card as an investment and plan to resell, then I'm a moron for bidding more than the card was worth in the first place. And yes this has happened to me and as I have overbid plenty of times. In the end, it's what I was comfortable paying.

By the way, I typically snipe on Ebay, get an opening bid in AH's so I can put my real bid in extended bidding and generally offer my best price to people here on BST(with a little wiggle room).

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by Mark17

To me there is a big difference between a shill bidder and a bidder who reneges (retracts - basically same thing.)

A shill bidder is just another person you have to bid against if you want to win an item. If the bidding gets too high, drop out. If the shill bidder tries to push your bid up further but you decide not to do so, the joke, and expenses, are on him.

Someone who bids and reneges is either a shill bidder who is not willing to pay the consequences of failing to push your bid higher, or he does so in order to gain private information - namely, what the max bid is. In the first scenario you're bidding against a ghost who is trying to maximize what you will pay, while running no risk of expense himself, and in the other, he is basically making your max bid public information.

So ask yourself, when you place a max bid, would it bother you if the AH knew what it was? Would it bother you if everyone seriously watching that item knew what it was?

Somebody wants to shill bid me I don't care, as long as he/she pays when I don't take the bait. People who retract (renege) on their bids are cheating and it is a problem.

great points, thanks for your input

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Aren't these changes ebay would have to enact not PWCC? If thats the case I don't know any of this even matters.

no. pwcc or any other auction house can do it.

[JustCollectVP]

This response is with respect to eBay auctions as auction houses are an entirely different bidding entity that requires a different bidding strategy and execution.

Setting snipes helps avert some of the "shilling" and retraction issues addressed by the OP.

However, if someone is shilling an auction, they are usually doing so to either inflate the potential final sales price, entice bidders into believing that there's a bidding war or to set a floor or reserve for the item. And they are usually doing this in the earlier stages of the auction, not in the closing hours or minutes (eBay restricts retractions in the final hours).

Retractions are most often used to "out" an underbidder's maximum bid. Not such a concern when they happen early in an auction as the serious bidding has yet to take place, but still a concern.

Personally, I think too many spend too much time worrying about the "what ifs" and the "am I getting shilled" to enjoy the chase of cards that they want. And then the sword cuts again when they win, as they feel cheated and when they lose, they have a built in excuse.

Simply snipe it. Set your and let your bid roll out in the last seconds. Too late to have someone retract a bid on you and too late for a shilling to react if they haven't already capped your bid...

[HRBAKER]

The easiest solution is to stop playing where you think this is going on.
This is an unregulated industry, ebay has done everything they can to make their process as opaque as possible to bidders and buyers.

The biggest problem is our inability to say no thanks.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Aren't these changes ebay would have to enact not PWCC? If thats the case I don't know any of this even matters.

I block buyers when I have trouble with them. PWCC can certainly do the same. If someone with 20 retractions bids then retracts in a PWCC auction they can simply block them and then they are unable to even access PWCC auctions going forward. They receive no notice of the block it just happens.