Proposed Change to Lessen Manipulative Bidding/Conversation with PWCC/Input Wanted

[Rookiemonster]

I don't bid more then what I feel what the card is worth. After that I assume everyone else is a bafoon lol. After it reached its value point I don't even watch the card anymore ( unless it's do sharts and giggles). I really don't care what happens after that.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

I don't bid more then what I feel what the card is worth. After that I assume everyone else is a bafoon lol. After it reached its value point I don't even watch the card anymore ( unless it's do sharts and giggles). I really don't care what happens after that.

Do you consistently watch cards you're interested in or do you get a wild hair, like most collectors, and just go after what you might see in the moment?

If it's the latter then don't you think there's a chance that the increase in sales price over the last year might have an effect on what you think a card is worth?

If you see a card that has sold for $200 over the past 3 months, but 6 months ago it sold consistently for $50, do you think you'd think the card is worth $50? If you think it's worth even $5 more than that then the market price of the card over the last 3 months has effected what you think the card is worth; and thus they have won.

[Brent Huigens]

Thanks to the original poster for raising these issues. We imagine many in the hobby harbor similar concerns and frustrations about the legitimacy of the bidding environment; as a business owner and collector, I certainly do. We appreciate everyone’s patience as we work to address these issues. For the past three years, we have partnered with eBay to develop new methods and tools for ensuring an honest bidding environment, with a particular focus around bid retractions. We await several final decisions from eBay, but PWCC will initiate a new post on this and other message boards announcing PWCC and eBay’s jointly-created plan to limit fraud on the eBay platform. I expect to make this post by the end of next week.

As always, please don’t hesitate to reach out if you have any concerns, suggestions, or questions.

Brent Huigens
PWCC Auctions
brent@pwccauctions.com

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

That's pretty exciting stuff.

[Exhibitman]

One thing I've noticed that certainly causes me to place small incremental bids is the eBay app. When I am on my phone and decide to bid, the small incremental bid is a single screen touch to repeat and I often find myself making several bids that would look like shill bids if the bid increment and frequency were the tests.

I think the focus has to be on unusual outcomes in eBay auctions that are spurred by bidders with low feedback and/or lots of bid retractions. I tend to be suspicious when an auction on a common card gets a flood of bids from those two types of bidders. I'll give you an example. I am currently watching a PSA 9 Evander Holyfield RC (item #351764801461) in a PWCC auction. Not picking on you, Brent, you just happen to have one going. One sold on June 11 for $241.50. Another sold on June 26 for $40.98. The VCP average reported price for the card over the last four years is $141.24 over about a dozen sales. PWCC's is at $62 and ends tomorrow. The bidding has been driven by a bidder with seven retractions in the last six months. That screams shill bidding to me, especially when a comparable card (a modern 9; really an interchangeable card) barely brought $40 three days ago.

[Leon]

Those are the kind of auctions which a few friends and I privately have lots of emails about. Maybe, If someone has more than a few (say 3) bid retractions in the last year they should be blocked, then taken on case by case basis to be let back to bidding. That would hinder the assault somewhat. It seems there is no good justification for the quantity of bidders with many, many bid retractions. And especially when they bid on a particular person/company auctions for a large percentage of their bids. Yuck and a lot of it from what I see. *And of course these comments are not meant to be aimed solely at Brent (Hey Brent) as they are across the board.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

One thing I've noticed that certainly causes me to place small incremental bids is the eBay app. When I am on my phone and decide to bid, the small incremental bid is a single screen touch to repeat and I often find myself making several bids that would look like shill bids if the bid increment and frequency were the tests.

I think the focus has to be on unusual outcomes in eBay auctions that are spurred by bidders with low feedback and/or lots of bid retractions. I tend to be suspicious when an auction on a common card gets a flood of bids from those two types of bidders. I'll give you an example. I am currently watching a PSA 9 Evander Holyfield RC (item #351764801461) in a PWCC auction. Not picking on you, Brent, you just happen to have one going. One sold on June 11 for $241.50. Another sold on June 26 for $40.98. The VCP average reported price for the card over the last four years is $141.24 over about a dozen sales. PWCC's is at $62 and ends tomorrow. The bidding has been driven by a bidder with seven retractions in the last six months. That screams shill bidding to me, especially when a comparable card (a modern 9; really an interchangeable card) barely brought $40 three days ago.

[TanksAndSpartans]

These cards that are selling at record prices suddenly, take a Jim Brown rookie that sells for 6.5K in a PSA 8 and then sells for 17.5K the same month... I just don't think that's schilling. How many people go into an auction willing to pay 7K and then "chase" another bidder up 10K? Just doesn't seem likely to me.

I consigned a card about a year ago that I remember well - it was a $250 card that sold for around that. But there was a bidder that bid around 35 times - I can't help but think he was trying to scare the competition away.

I have no idea what's going on - but couldn't there be a small group of "flippers/speculators" trying to manipulate this? I think there are multiple problems here - sure there is opportunity to schill in eBay auctions esp. with such small bid increments, someone might be willing to pay just a little more and chase a card up or maybe set their snipe with some extra $$ in it to be "safe", but I don't think that's why we see the record setting prices in my opinion.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

Do you consistently watch cards you're interested in or do you get a wild hair, like most collectors, and just go after what you might see in the moment?

If it's the latter then don't you think there's a chance that the increase in sales price over the last year might have an effect on what you think a card is worth?

If you see a card that has sold for $200 over the past 3 months, but 6 months ago it sold consistently for $50, do you think you'd think the card is worth $50? If you think it's worth even $5 more than that then the market price of the card over the last 3 months has effected what you think the card is worth; and thus they have won.

I guess it really depends on the case . With the current market what it is . I would see a flip opportunity. But if a card I'm chasing for my collection is goes up . Then I have to say is it worth the whistle. If not , I move on .