WOW! 1960 Yaz rookie PSA 9

[Peter_Spaeth]

Carl Yastrzemski
Home/Away---BA----Slg.--onbase------HR------D------T------RBI----AB-----BB
Home:------.306---.503----.405------237----382-----38---1,063---5,948---959
Away:------.264----.422----.360-------215----264-----21------781---6,040---886

[thenextlevel]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Carl Yastrzemski
Home/Away---BA----Slg.--onbase------HR------D------T------RBI----AB-----BB
Home:------.306---.503----.405------237----382-----38---1,063---5,948---959
Away:------.264----.422----.360-------215----264-----21------781---6,040---886

What does this prove, that Yaz wasn't a Hall of Famer at the time of his election? Not every Hall of Famer is going to have Ruthian stats. You have certain players who are of course superior to others, but that doesn't mean that they are not worthy on a certain level. Don't forget to add in his GG's, unless you don't want to count defensive awards. Then again, there are people who argue that Nolan Ryan isn't Hall of Fame worthy b/c of his winning %age and lack of Cy Youngs, so nothing surprises me in these conversations.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by thenextlevel

What does this prove, that Yaz wasn't a Hall of Famer at the time of his election? Not every Hall of Famer is going to have Ruthian stats. You have certain players who are of course superior to others, but that doesn't mean that they are not worthy on a certain level. Don't forget to add in his GG's, unless you don't want to count defensive awards. Then again, there are people who argue that Nolan Ryan isn't Hall of Fame worthy b/c of his winning %age and lack of Cy Youngs, so nothing surprises me in these conversations.

No he is clearly a HOFer, it would be insane to argue otherwise, just perhaps not quite as good as his popularity/mythology suggests.

[thenextlevel]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No he is clearly a HOFer, it would be insane to argue otherwise, just perhaps not quite as good as his popularity/mythology suggests.

I really don't think that he is all that popular/mythical outside of the Boston area, although when it comes to key rookies in 60's baseball cards, he is in the top ten, arguably top 5(only Rose and Ryan clearly ahead). I think that's the driving force behind this card, more than just Yaz himself.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by thenextlevel

I really don't think that he is all that popular/mythical outside of the Boston area, although when it comes to key rookies in 60's baseball cards, he is in the top ten, arguably top 5(only Rose and Ryan clearly ahead). I think that's the driving force behind this card, more than just Yaz himself.

I don't follow, if he is a key rookie it is because of his popularity, no?

[thenextlevel]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't follow, if he is a key rookie it is because of his popularity, no?

No. It is because if you are a collector of key rookie cards, then he is one of the few Hall of Famers with cards in the sixties. It doesn't mean Yaz would be considered a top Hall of Famer by baseball standards. Let's separate the hobby side of his popularity from the sporting side. I am not saying he is not popular, but you seem to be insinuating that he is thought of as one baseball's most revered players, bc he played for the Red Sox.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by thenextlevel

No. It is because if you are a collector of key rookie cards, then he is one of the few Hall of Famers with cards in the sixties. It doesn't mean Yaz would be considered a top Hall of Famer by baseball standards. Let's separate the hobby side of his popularity from the sporting side. I am not saying he is not popular, but you seem to be insinuating that he is thought of as one baseball's most revered players, bc he played for the Red Sox.

One of the few?
Define few.

Yaz
McCovey
Williams
Santo
Marichal
Perry
Brock
Stargell
(Rose)
Niekro
Hunter
Perez
Morgan
Carlton
Sutton
Jenkins
Palmer
Carew
Seaver
Bench
Ryan
Fingers
Jackson

Not a small number by my standards.

[PM770]

Originally Posted by thenextlevel

key rookies in 60's baseball cards, he is in the top ten, arguably top 5(only Rose and Ryan clearly ahead).

This would be a great thread topic.

[CMIZ5290]

I probably did not do a good job of conveying my opinion clearly pertaining Yaz. Of course he should be a HOFer. But I do put him in the category of other players like Brooks Robinson and Phil Niekro. All three of these guys deserve to be in, but there are question marks pertaining each one of them. As Peter posted previously, Yaz only hit .260 on the road for his career. The real point I was trying to make on the original post of the thread, is it's baffling as to why his rookie card commands the price it does in extremely high grade. The mystique of playing in Boston and Fenway for almost a quarter of a century has to play a huge part in it.

[aro13]

Yaz stats were inflated in Fenway for a couple of reasons. Obviously, the park is great for left-handed hitters AND managers in those days were reluctant to pitch left-handers in Fenway (which is not very smart, but whatever) which meant Yaz faced a majority of right-handed pitching. His splits were vastly superior against right-handed pitching and he faced them 75% of the time. Compare that to someone like Reggie Jackson who faced right-handers only 65% of the time.

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB AVG OBP SLG
vs RHP 8973 1459 2684 537 38 374 1413 1499 .299 .398 .492
vs LHP 3015 357 735 109 21 78 431 346 .244 .321 .371

You have to weigh the Fenway Park stats with the fact the era he played in favoured pitchers and reach a conclusion.

Obviously, enough voters ignored the Fenway Park factor and felt he was an obvious Hall of Famer. He compiled over 3000 hits and 400 homeruns in an era when that meant something.

His RC probably commands a high price because he is a HOFer and he played for a popular team. Really, there are very few HOF RC's from the 50's and 60's that do not command a high price.