WOW! 1960 Yaz rookie PSA 9

[sox1903wschamp]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Wow Ted, Your guess is as good as mine at this point. Having said that, it seems that PSA 6's thru 8's are very affordable. I'm just amazed that I have not picked up on this incredible craze for 9's and 10's sooner! More Yaz stats..... Lifetime batting average .285, averaged about 165 hits per season, only 24 total hits in his entire post season, no World Series ring. If not for playing for the Red Sox for 24 years, would he even be a HOFer? Still a great player.....

So Johnny Bench hit .267 lifetime and was great defensively just like Yaz. Same boat? Oh and Bench hit .266 in the postseason and Yaz, .369. I realize that's not the point of this thread but ya got under my skin. Carry on.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by sox1903wschamp

So Johnny Bench hit .267 lifetime and was great defensively just like Yaz. Same boat? Oh and Bench hit .266 in the postseason and Yaz, .369. I realize that's not the point of this thread but ya got under my skin. Carry on.

Oh boy, I'm shaken by that. Can I get anything for you from the bar?

[sox1903wschamp]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Oh boy, I'm shaken by that. Can I get anything for you from the bar?

Bartending maybe your calling. But really, carry on about PSA 9's, interesting dialogue.

[glynparson]

I know it's hard to believe but these are real sales this would be a far too large conspiracy to not be real and I know what Many dealers have sold over the past few months have been real sales. Believing this is some sort of manipulation and these aren't real sales is silly. Strange things happen and when markets rise it sometimes happens too quickly. These spikes don't always last but when they come down prices are often still higher than before the spikes. I think this will happen in cards. I also think the 10 and some of the 9 prices may stay fairly absurd for the foreseeable future. It's the easier 7 and many 8 prices that will have the most downward corrections. In my honest opinion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I know it's hard to believe but these are real sales this would be a far too large conspiracy to not be real and I know what Many dealers have sold over the past few months have been real sales. Believing this is some sort of manipulation and these aren't real sales is silly. Strange things happen and when markets rise it sometimes happens too quickly. These spikes don't always last but when they come down prices are often still higher than before the spikes. I think this will happen in cards. I also think the 10 and some of the 9 prices may stay fairly absurd for the foreseeable future. It's the easier 7 and many 8 prices that will have the most downward corrections. In my honest opinion.

False dichotomy. Straw man. Whatever you want to call it. A real sale can occur at an artificially inflated price. Did you read what Justin wrote about trying to corner the market and push prices?

[Dpeck100]

I know a collector who sold his PSA 8 Pete Rose for $18,000 recently. He is treating his family to a pool. The money does spend.

[autograf]

Ryan in a 9 with PWCC going for $60K currently.......

Total anarchy! Cats and dogs in the streets!

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

The money does spend.

Love this line.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by sox1903wschamp

So Johnny Bench hit .267 lifetime and was great defensively just like Yaz. Same boat? Oh and Bench hit .266 in the postseason and Yaz, .369. I realize that's not the point of this thread but ya got under my skin. Carry on.

Bench- 2 titles, Yaz- 0

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Bench- 2 titles, Yaz- 0

This is silly, both Bench and Yaz are no-brainer Hall of Famers. Yaz for his 3,400+ hits and 450+ homers, Bench because he was the best catcher of all time, offensively and defensively.

[thenextlevel]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Could you might be from the N.E.??

I dislike the Red Sox first and foremost.

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Bench- 2 titles, Yaz- 0

I didn't know titles were a qualification of being a Hall of famer. Before the steroid era, at the time of his election, Yaz's stats were pretty damn impressive. Add in his gold gloves, and you have a pretty complete player. I would imagine his 18 All-Star selections during his playing days, were a good sign of his place in the game.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by thenextlevel

I dislike the Red Sox first and foremost.



I didn't know titles were a qualification of being a Hall of famer. Before the steroid era, at the time of his election, Yaz's stats were pretty damn impressive. Add in his gold gloves, and you have a pretty complete player. I would imagine his 18 All-Star selections during his playing days, were a good sign of his place in the game.

The most compelling criticism I have seen of Yaz is that his numbers were in large part due to park effects and that he really wasn't all that good on the road. I think Tabe if I am remembering correctly made a pretty strong case for that.

[thenextlevel]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The most compelling criticism I have seen of Yaz is that his numbers were in large part due to park effects and that he really wasn't all that good on the road. I think Tabe if I am remembering correctly made a pretty strong case for that.

His splits were not that bad on the road. If that's the case, let's start penalizing players career stats today, b/c they play in the launching pad stadiums of today. Plus, home versus away didn't affect his gold gloves. I'm not saying that he is a top tier Hall of Famer. I am just saying that at the time of his election, how could he be denied.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Carl Yastrzemski
Home/Away---BA----Slg.--onbase------HR------D------T------RBI----AB-----BB
Home:------.306---.503----.405------237----382-----38---1,063---5,948---959
Away:------.264----.422----.360-------215----264-----21------781---6,040---886

[thenextlevel]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Carl Yastrzemski
Home/Away---BA----Slg.--onbase------HR------D------T------RBI----AB-----BB
Home:------.306---.503----.405------237----382-----38---1,063---5,948---959
Away:------.264----.422----.360-------215----264-----21------781---6,040---886

What does this prove, that Yaz wasn't a Hall of Famer at the time of his election? Not every Hall of Famer is going to have Ruthian stats. You have certain players who are of course superior to others, but that doesn't mean that they are not worthy on a certain level. Don't forget to add in his GG's, unless you don't want to count defensive awards. Then again, there are people who argue that Nolan Ryan isn't Hall of Fame worthy b/c of his winning %age and lack of Cy Youngs, so nothing surprises me in these conversations.

[KCRfan1]

Park or not, Yaz was a fine player. He had a great game and had to in order to play for 24 years. If one is going to hold a player accountable to the " park effect " then the same has to apply to Ruth, Gehrig, Koufax ( pitchers park ), ect. Either you have mad talent to be among the greats or you don't, and the talent will translate to any park.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Babe Ruth
Home/Away--BA----Slg.--onbase---HR-----D-----T-----RBI------AB-----BB
Home:-----.347---.699---.482-----347---239---70------979---4,033---1,037
Away:-----.338----.681---.466-----367---267---66---1,004---4,388---1,019

Lou Gehrig
Home/Away--BA----Slg.----onbase---HR---D-------T-----RBI------AB------BB
Home:-----.329---.620-----.436----251---206-----83-----947-----3,861----713
Away:-----.351---.644----.458----242---329-----79---1,043-----4,140---795

[nat]

Is someone really trying to argue that Carl Yastrzemski doesn't belong in the hall of fame? If you're worried about park effects, look at OPS+, which normalizes for those. Yaz has a 130 OPS+ in about 14,000 PA. He's tied with Roberto Clemente, Mike Epstein, Greg Luzinski, Minnie Minoso, Hal Trosky, Dave Winfield, and Ross Youngs. And of course has more PA than any of them (he's second all-time).

He wound up with a (barely) positive dWAR, despite the fact that he played corner outfield and 1B, positions which start with a penalty in dWAR. By comparison, Winfield was at -23 dWAR and Clemente was at 12. Both in corner outfield spots. So what we've got is someone who was much better than Winfield as a fielder, and quite a bit worse than Clemente (which sounds about right). He was their equal as a batter, and had a much longer career than either. That's way way way over the line for the hall of fame.

(Just for fun, Luzinski was at -21 dWAR in a career much shorter than Winfield's.)