the list (of criminals) is revealed

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 I also know what Peter done was wrong but respect him for coming forward.

I appreciate that. I much prefer to be slammed by people who disagree with me than to appear to be cowardly and not confront the issue.

[ElCabron]

As heroic as it was to "come forward" AFTER he'd been publicly outed for shill bidding, which he actually did do, maybe every board member doesn't still need to come forward and congratulate Peter. I think we all get it. He did a wonderful thing and has received plenty of kudos and validation for it. Hopefully Peter will serve as inspiration for others to come forward and admit their guilt, which will certainly be received with thunderous applause while board members sing "For he's a jolly good fellow" before each one individually praises the shill bidder in a brand new post for being such a stand up guy.

-Ryan

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

As heroic as it was to "come forward" AFTER he'd been publicly outed for shill bidding, which he actually did do, maybe every board member doesn't still need to come forward and congratulate Peter. I think we all get it. He did a wonderful thing and has received plenty of kudos and validation for it. Hopefully Peter will serve as inspiration for others to come forward and admit their guilt, which will certainly be received with thunderous applause while board members sing "For he's a jolly good fellow" before each one individually praises the shill bidder in a brand new post for being such a stand up guy.

-Ryan

Nobody does sarcasm quite like Ryan. I should have let those posts stand where Adam and Ullman originally thought I was a victim, I guess.

[swarmee]

So the "Hidden Reserve" was basically the same concept that PWCC used in eBay for years as well as are still in the Terms of Service at multiple auctionhouses going today. Not illegal, just unsavory.

I wasn't in the vintage card market at that time, and I don't really splash in the deep end now, but I will continue to make minimum bids and then snipe at the end.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by swarmee

So the "Hidden Reserve" was basically the same concept that PWCC used in eBay for years as well as are still in the Terms of Service at multiple auctionhouses going today. Not illegal, just unsavory.

I wasn't in the vintage card market at that time, and I don't really splash in the deep end now, but I will continue to make minimum bids and then snipe at the end.

The hidden reserve is unsavory and contrary to the spirit of the auction. It is not illegal, but I don't think Christy Mathewson would do it.

[Fred]

After reading through this document I felt like I wanted to puke. WTF!

How do they know that those on the shill bidders list actually shilled the auction?

Can we assume that each of the victims were notified?

Was any restitution paid to the victims by the shill bidders or Mastro or Allen?

OMG - how much of those auctions were actually legitimate? Based on all the shill bidding going on it appears that many items are probably a bit inflated in value.

Is anything going to happen to the other shill bidders listed?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Fred

After reading through this document I felt like I wanted to puke. WTF!

How do they know that those on the shill bidders list actually shilled the auction?

Can we assume that each of the victims were notified?

Was any restitution paid to the victims by the shill bidders or Mastro or Allen?

OMG - how much of those auctions were actually legitimate? Based on all the shill bidding going on it appears that many items are probably a bit inflated in value.

Is anything going to happen to the other shill bidders listed?

where have u been fred...these discussions have been going on for a while...and there was a long thread last year urging people to write letters to the judge prosecuting mastro to try to get restitution or a longer sentance.

[conor912]

If this board were a band, this is definitely where we'd break up.

[midmo]

Originally Posted by conor912

If this board were a band, this is definitely where we'd break up.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

As heroic as it was to "come forward" AFTER he'd been publicly outed for shill bidding, which he actually did do, maybe every board member doesn't still need to come forward and congratulate Peter. I think we all get it. He did a wonderful thing and has received plenty of kudos and validation for it. Hopefully Peter will serve as inspiration for others to come forward and admit their guilt, which will certainly be received with thunderous applause while board members sing "For he's a jolly good fellow" before each one individually praises the shill bidder in a brand new post for being such a stand up guy.

-Ryan

Ryan,
I really don't know Peter, except posting on here. But he stepped up and told what he did. I think you are going over board on the praise thing.

I, and others, have said what he did was wrong, but thank you for stepping up and telling us your story.

Others haven't responded at all. And probably won't.

Peter told what he did. Everyone, except him, have said it was wrong. He'll come around.

No one has supported his action or position.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I appreciate that. I much prefer to be slammed by people who disagree with me than to appear to be cowardly and not confront the issue.

I don't know Peter, and I'm not a piling-on type of poster, and I generally don't cast stones, and I'm not without my own faults, but that was a duesch bag move in 2007.

It appears you haven't gone through the 10-step shiller program. Your are now a recovering shiller, which means stop digging.

But I do commend you for having the balls to post. In 12 months, no-one will remember this.