the list (of criminals) is revealed

[ullmandds]

Based on Peter S's history on here...I am a little surprised as well that you do not see this type of behavior as wrong...a little shocking...but I respect u for coming forward.

On another note...apparently this type of behavior routinely occurs in other areas of collecting...fine arts, etc...where the "house" will "bid up" an item to a "hidden reserve" or such...and this is accepted. While I dont like this...I dont like most things...so go figure!!!!

Many here consider these pieces of cardboard "Art"...is it time for the hobby rules to change?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Based on Peter S's history on here...I am a little surprised as well that you do not see this type of behavior as wrong...a little shocking...but I respect u for coming forward.

On another note...apparently this type of behavior routinely occurs in other areas of collecting...fine arts, etc...where the "house" will "bid up" an item to a "hidden reserve" or such...and this is accepted. While I dont like this...I dont like most things...so go figure!!!!

Many here consider these pieces of cardboard "Art"...is it time for the hobby rules to change?

Pete, for better or worse, and I have said this before many times in debates here so this is nothing new, I think running someone up knowing they have a top all is not the same thing as bidding a lot up to a reserve, especially with the willingness to pay the premium. I get the argument on the other side. As for coming forward, that's just my choice. Hopefully some others will offer their own explanations and perspectives, but if not, well I will surely take the heat for them as it's a lot easier to dump on an actual poster than people who aren't willing to engage.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Based on Peter S's history on here...I am a little surprised as well that you do not see this type of behavior as wrong...a little shocking...but I respect u for coming forward.

+1 I also know what Peter done was wrong but respect him for coming forward.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 I also know what Peter done was wrong but respect him for coming forward.

I appreciate that. I much prefer to be slammed by people who disagree with me than to appear to be cowardly and not confront the issue.

[ElCabron]

As heroic as it was to "come forward" AFTER he'd been publicly outed for shill bidding, which he actually did do, maybe every board member doesn't still need to come forward and congratulate Peter. I think we all get it. He did a wonderful thing and has received plenty of kudos and validation for it. Hopefully Peter will serve as inspiration for others to come forward and admit their guilt, which will certainly be received with thunderous applause while board members sing "For he's a jolly good fellow" before each one individually praises the shill bidder in a brand new post for being such a stand up guy.

-Ryan

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

As heroic as it was to "come forward" AFTER he'd been publicly outed for shill bidding, which he actually did do, maybe every board member doesn't still need to come forward and congratulate Peter. I think we all get it. He did a wonderful thing and has received plenty of kudos and validation for it. Hopefully Peter will serve as inspiration for others to come forward and admit their guilt, which will certainly be received with thunderous applause while board members sing "For he's a jolly good fellow" before each one individually praises the shill bidder in a brand new post for being such a stand up guy.

-Ryan

Nobody does sarcasm quite like Ryan. I should have let those posts stand where Adam and Ullman originally thought I was a victim, I guess.

[swarmee]

So the "Hidden Reserve" was basically the same concept that PWCC used in eBay for years as well as are still in the Terms of Service at multiple auctionhouses going today. Not illegal, just unsavory.

I wasn't in the vintage card market at that time, and I don't really splash in the deep end now, but I will continue to make minimum bids and then snipe at the end.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by swarmee

So the "Hidden Reserve" was basically the same concept that PWCC used in eBay for years as well as are still in the Terms of Service at multiple auctionhouses going today. Not illegal, just unsavory.

I wasn't in the vintage card market at that time, and I don't really splash in the deep end now, but I will continue to make minimum bids and then snipe at the end.

The hidden reserve is unsavory and contrary to the spirit of the auction. It is not illegal, but I don't think Christy Mathewson would do it.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

As heroic as it was to "come forward" AFTER he'd been publicly outed for shill bidding, which he actually did do, maybe every board member doesn't still need to come forward and congratulate Peter. I think we all get it. He did a wonderful thing and has received plenty of kudos and validation for it. Hopefully Peter will serve as inspiration for others to come forward and admit their guilt, which will certainly be received with thunderous applause while board members sing "For he's a jolly good fellow" before each one individually praises the shill bidder in a brand new post for being such a stand up guy.

-Ryan

Ryan,
I really don't know Peter, except posting on here. But he stepped up and told what he did. I think you are going over board on the praise thing.

I, and others, have said what he did was wrong, but thank you for stepping up and telling us your story.

Others haven't responded at all. And probably won't.

Peter told what he did. Everyone, except him, have said it was wrong. He'll come around.

No one has supported his action or position.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I appreciate that. I much prefer to be slammed by people who disagree with me than to appear to be cowardly and not confront the issue.

I don't know Peter, and I'm not a piling-on type of poster, and I generally don't cast stones, and I'm not without my own faults, but that was a duesch bag move in 2007.

It appears you haven't gone through the 10-step shiller program. Your are now a recovering shiller, which means stop digging.

But I do commend you for having the balls to post. In 12 months, no-one will remember this.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 I also know what Peter done was wrong but respect him for coming forward.

Yeah, that is what I meant with my post. Agree Ben.