Buying all #332 Tony Bartirome 1952 Topps cards + his Gold Canary + Griffey + Tiger

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

To me, I get just as excited about a PSA 1 as a PSA 6.... if I see it available, I want it just as bad. I don't mind paying $200 for a 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. If it's raw and ungraded and looks bad, to me it's worth $150 at least regardless of condition. Of course I do recognize the extra rarity of a 7 and up, & paying handsomely for those.....but overall, I like #332 and try to win it just as aggressively no matter the condition or grade, & usually end up paying the same range for any 1-4 grade of it ($250 or less).

Out of the 346 PSA graded #332, I have about 50 of them now. So almost 20% is in my possession. I have 37 more to get graded to spike the PSA pop. Now owning 20% of the PSA population of #332 does seem to be influencing things lately. Of course, I have zero of the 4 PSA 9's and only 1 PSA 8, but it's an OC Qualifier. Hopefully I'll be able to get a few of the 32 PSA 8's by the end of the year (one is on Robert Edwards now, & one is on Heritage Auctions next month, thanks for the tips guys).

My dad used to have breakfast with him, and Stargell and Richie Zisk & Sanguillen at the pantry (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restauran...alifornia.html) next to the Los Angeles Biltmore Hotel (where the Pirates would stay).... My Dad got a ball signed from Clemente 2 weeks before he died in the plane crash. My dad was 14 then.

My Dad says he changed his last name to make it easier for announcers to pronounce.... 3 syllables instead of 4.... "Bar - tah - rome .......instead of Bar - tah - ro - mo....

Seems simple to me, but no one ever pronounces our name right.

there are probably 750-1000 of those cards in the States when all said and done........did you win the card on REA?

[mooch]

This is a fascinating thread, and surely it is an economic experiment. The buyer "announces" that he will be buying X card at above-market prices. How will the market react? Will price move? How many cards exist (supply)? I think it would be fun to try this myself if I had already cornered the market and were really a seller (as some have hinted); rationally, one oughtn't buy the cheap talk and assume this is a best response to a previously assemble position. Beyond this, this experiment is generating a lot of information that was not previously available to all. What is the true supply of high numbers from 1952? I hope that we all continue to track this, preferably, in the post-war forum. It is a nice extension of the Curt Flood experiment, where the buyer was a real buyer but did not announce his intentions in advance.

My contribution to the experiment: A key supply indicator is the PSA pop reports. So, why not take the OP's 20-25% of the PSA supply, crack them, and resubmit. Then, you will have about 50% of the published supply. All buyers will then see high pop reports but zero/low supply on EBAY and elsewhere. This would look like an anomaly to market observers, and it might generate interest. Perhaps, more velocity in the #332 turnover/marketing out of collections.

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by mooch

My contribution to the experiment: A key supply indicator is the PSA pop reports. So, why not take the OP's 20-25% of the PSA supply, crack them, and resubmit. Then, you will have about 50% of the published supply. All buyers will then see high pop reports but zero/low supply on EBAY and elsewhere. This would look like an anomaly to market observers, and it might generate interest. Perhaps, more velocity in the #332 turnover/marketing out of collections.

Interesting. Well, I could crack all PSA 1's - 4's & resubmit, but that is costly, & since I am in it as a collector & not to manipulate the market, there is no incentive unless I just like chaos & anarchy.

I won't risk cracking 5's & up & getting them a lesser grade.

I've asked a few #332 owners to sell me theirs (at double the market price) & they have refused because it was part of their set. So some just cannot be bought right now. Even the recent PSA 5 that had a $450 buy it now with best offer that went for $360, could not be re-bought for $500 when I asked the seller to tell the buyer to contact me if he wanted to make a nice quick profit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...-/111785024544 I won't pay $500 for a PSA 5, but the seller kept saying he passed my message on to the buyer at $400 so I just tried to smoke him out with a $500 offer, but still no response. $400 is the max I will pay for a PSA 5. I'm young - I can wait out some of these owners until they set break or fall on hard times.

I was going to wait until I had 100 ungraded #332's and then submit all for grading so I can get the $8 per card grading fee.

I will take a new group shot of all the #332's and update here once the PSA 8 from REA arrives.

I find it strange that I have never seen any of the 11 BGS graded #332's offered online anywhere:



There were 11 last week, now 12. Even the 2s, 4s, and 4.5 has never been seen. They aren't high grades so maybe not in sets? I still have zero BGS #332's.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

Interesting. Well, I could crack all PSA 1's - 4's & resubmit, but that is costly, & since I am in it as a collector & not to manipulate the market, there is no incentive unless I just like chaos & anarchy.

I won't risk cracking 5's & up & getting them a lesser grade.

I've asked a few #332 owners to sell me theirs (at double the market price) & they have refused because it was part of their set. So some just cannot be bought right now. Even the recent PSA 5 that had a $450 buy it now with best offer that went for $360, could not be re-bought for $500 when I asked the seller to tell the buyer to contact me if he wanted to make a nice quick profit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...-/111785024544 I won't pay $500 for a PSA 5, but the seller kept saying he passed my message on to the buyer at $400 so I just tried to smoke him out with a $500 offer, but still no response. $400 is the max I will pay for a PSA 5. I'm young - I can wait out some of these owners until they set break or fall on hard times.

I was going to wait until I had 100 ungraded #332's and then submit all for grading so I can get the $8 per card grading fee.

I will take a new group shot of all the #332's and update here once the PSA 8 from REA arrives.

I find it strange that I have never seen any of the 11 BGS graded #332's offered online anywhere:



There were 11 last week, now 12. Even the 2s, 4s, and 4.5 has never been seen. They aren't high grades so maybe not in sets? I still have zero BGS #332's.

right many of the set collectors aren't going to break up their sets.. you will need their kids to sell it after the death of the collector...most of the 52 collectors are over 50 years old....about the time when you see all the sets get broken up is when prices should fall...supply and demand..

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

there are probably 750-1000 of those cards in the States when all said and done........did you win the card on REA?

YES

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=38312

Don't like how my auto bid kept getting bumped up after $900 in after hours bidding. I've never seen a PSA 8 go for more then $950 (on eBay last year with a buy it now). Other then that, it's done $400-$600 on other websites from my research....

But yes, I won it for $1,300.

Heritage has one next month. We will see what happens.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

YES

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=38312

Don't like how my auto bid kept getting bumped up after $900 in after hours bidding. I've never seen a PSA 8 go for more then $950 (on eBay last year with a buy it now). Other then that, it's done $400-$600 on other websites from my research....

But yes, I won it for $1,300.

Heritage has one next month. We will see what happens.

the one on REA was pretty offcentered...the heritage one may go for more....I bought the #12 Basgil which I think is one of the rarest 1952s to get in a black back and paid less than 1300 funny

[mooch]

The OP is getting some terrific market info, and I appreciate his willingness to share. We are seeing some more complex aspects of value rather than simply the price of the marginal trade. Consider that the OP has found that some owners are unwilling to accept even 1.5x or more...even when they just bought it. People certainly value their own cards, and all owners do not view those on the market as substitutes. The OP is going farther up the supply curve

Also, I always wondered how many cards on the beckett or psa pop guides were resubmitted, and so the numbers in the pop report are above the true number of graded cards. The OP is gaining some insight on the true population. Even for commons, I hypothesized that a good number of 5s and higher are resubmitted.

BTW: I am fascinated because I established a small position on a 1957 common several years ago. I noticed that the psa 5+ market price rose 10-20% on ebay, which I attributed to my position. The 1957 commons are far more in number, I bet, than 1952 highs, so I am not surprised that the OP's position is driving price up rapidly.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by mooch

The OP is getting some terrific market info, and I appreciate his willingness to share. We are seeing some more complex aspects of value rather than simply the price of the marginal trade. Consider that the OP has found that some owners are unwilling to accept even 1.5x or more...even when they just bought it. People certainly value their own cards, and all owners do not view those on the market as substitutes. The OP is going farther up the supply curve

Also, I always wondered how many cards on the beckett or psa pop guides were resubmitted, and so the numbers in the pop report are above the true number of graded cards. The OP is gaining some insight on the true population. Even for commons, I hypothesized that a good number of 5s and higher are resubmitted.

BTW: I am fascinated because I established a small position on a 1957 common several years ago. I noticed that the psa 5+ market price rose 10-20% on ebay, which I attributed to my position. The 1957 commons are far more in number, I bet, than 1952 highs, so I am not surprised that the OP's position is driving price up rapidly.

The PSA 8s don't get resubmitted often though for 1952s....so that POP is probably pretty accurate the prices will hold until he doesn't buy one from a person for an amount he stated....then all the prices will collapse....he did say he was young .things change really fast on card collecting ...people tend to 'refocus' their collection often...

[cozmokramer]

How about an updated picture like the first one showing ALL your 332 cards?

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

How about an updated picture like the first one showing ALL your 332 cards?

I will round them up out of their safes & locations & take a picture of all of them as soon as the new PSA 8 arrives in a few weeks.

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by mooch

The OP is getting some terrific market info, and I appreciate his willingness to share.

Publishing this thread has allowed me to obtain 2 PSA 6's this month from private messages on this forum. One of them originally said NO, not selling.

"I do have a Bartirome, PSA 6 centered, but I'm not looking to sell just at the moment. I'll definitely keep you in mind though if I do elect to do so in the near future. "

Then I said LOOK, PWCC is auctioning off a PSA 6 right now. When it ends with me as the winner, I will contact you again & offer you whatever PWCC final auction price went for + $50 extra. We all know PWCC commands a premium so +$50 was an even higher premium.



Then he said:

I can tell you really want that card, and hey, us collectors gotta help each other out. So I'll do that deal.

So I figured I had to broadcast what I am seeking to hunt some of these down.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

Publishing this thread has allowed me to obtain 2 PSA 6's this month from private messages on this forum.

This has a somewhat familiar ring to it. Did you happen to know Bruce Dorskind?

Good luck with your quest, and Happy Collecting.

Best regards,

Eric

[Leon]

After a little investigating it seems our OP has registered on our forum with a bogus last name and is now suspended per the rules. If anyone is interested they might google a bit on Cole Bart.iromo .without the period.....Thanks to a member for the PM and helping to keep our community safe....Had this guy wanted to do the right things now he wouldn't have registered with a bogus last name.

or you can cut to the chase with this link to some of the older stuff, there is some newer stuff too.....and Jake, it is the person who started this thread..

http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/cole-bartiromo
...

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

the one on REA was pretty offcentered...the heritage one may go for more....I bought the #12 Basgil which I think is one of the rarest 1952s to get in a black back and paid less than 1300 funny

I have never been aware of black back or any specific back. Does #332 have different color backs? All of mine are the same....

I have also never noticed centering....it isn't even 1% concern of mine. Now that you mention it, the REA centering is a bit off, but again, it doesn't matter to me what the centering shows. It is strange to me for a collector to be concerned where an imaginary border created by a ink line lands on a cards edge.

[egri]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

there are probably 750-1000 of those cards in the States when all said and done

Just curious, how did you arrive at a population of 750-1000? I'm not doubting you, I was just wondering.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by egri

Just curious, how did you arrive at a population of 750-1000? I'm not doubting you, I was just wondering.

well there are probably just as many raw bad condition cards then there are graded cards...there are around 375 graded cards that puts it at 750....people dont submit psa 1 common high numbers....plus there got to be some more beter conditon cards out there..its a guess..but there are a ton of raw cards out there..i got 2 or 3 good condition baritromes i bought raw that were psa 7-8s the last 2 years and im just a little guy i not scouring the US looking for cards.....

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

.i got 2 or 3 good condition baritromes i bought raw that were psa 7-8s the last 2 years and im just a little guy i not scouring the us looking for cards.....

helllloooooo! Sell them to me!!!!