Buying all #332 Tony Bartirome 1952 Topps cards + his Gold Canary + Griffey + Tiger

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

Problem that I am now seeing, & direct proof that I am influencing the actual market, even in an auction style listing for a #332, are these 2 bidders going at it in a bidding war to win it - just to sell it to me:

ebay.com/itm/1952-TOPPS-332-TONY-BARTIROME-VGEX-/361402950360

myrondavis07 won it.
doug.41 was the runner up.

They both understand I pay extra for #332.

Both of them have been bidding against each other for multiple listings of #332 now. If I throw myself into the bidding mix, it creates quite the problem.

the link doesnt show but one auction isnt VCP i saw one go cheap on ebay recently...i guess you will pay extra until you dont.......and that poor guy that overpayed will have noone to sell it too ....all comes to end eventually......i know at least 15 set collectors that have one that arent selling so you may be helping them since they didnt pay a premum but i know a few 1952 hoarders from years ago that had many more examples of the card they wanted compared what you have for #332 and now you can buy those cards with a price that wouldnt give you a second thought that someone may have large amount of the market share on that card because its not reflective on price...

i think one way to raise the market a little is to burn what you have on youtube! Farmers pour out milk to raise milk prices........but i know you state you arent trying to raise the market you have a connection to the ballplayer

I

[Peter_Spaeth]

Having bought two cards from Levi, perhaps you should retract your reference to him in your initial post as a "scammer."

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Having bought two cards from Levi, perhaps you should retract your reference to him in your initial post as a "scammer."

Done. Really don't appreciate their lack of compromise or flexibility, so my opinion of them stands, regardless of buying from them to further a goal, but the words have been removed.

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

the link doesnt show but one auction isnt VCP i saw one go cheap on ebay recently...i guess you will pay extra until you dont.......and that poor guy that overpayed will have noone to sell it too ....all comes to end eventually......i know at least 15 set collectors that have one that arent selling so you may be helping them since they didnt pay a premum but i know a few 1952 hoarders from years ago that had many more examples of the card they wanted compared what you have for #332 and now you can buy those cards with a price that wouldnt give you a second thought that someone may have large amount of the market share on that card because its not reflective on price...

i think one way to raise the market a little is to burn what you have on youtube! Farmers pour out milk to raise milk prices........but i know you state you arent trying to raise the market you have a connection to the ballplayer

I

Just paid $750 for a PSA 7.5 & that was a private sale from Ed Hazuka. Not worried about market price. Just trying to obtain many examples of each grade for personal family collection of Tony.

Are you saying those 1952 hoarders you know will or won't sell their #332 duplicates? Put out the word to them, & the 15 set holders you know that when they are going to do their set breaks, sell #332 to me, not PWCC or probstein, because they will get more from me directly.

The link works now. Revised it.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

Just paid $750 for a PSA 7.5 & that was a private sale from Ed Hazuka. Not worried about market price. Just trying to obtain many examples of each grade for personal family collection of Tony.

Are you saying those 1952 hoarders you know will or won't sell their #332 duplicates? Put out the word to them, & the 15 set holders you know that when they are going to do their set breaks, sell #332 to me, not PWCC or probstein, because they will get more from me directly.

The link works now. Revised it.

The problem is they will die with their collections..so yeah 20-30 years from now you may see those set breaks.. but you may be the only 1 bidding so you can get them cheap by then....plus there are many raw out there that havent been graded...people can pay what they want but it still going to be a ways to go for the card to be rare on the market...plus really only the ex+or better is what the the registry collectors are looking for... however i will let them know...i sold most of 1952 set to several of the set collectors and thats how i know them..

man first Levi and now Ed Hazuka..but Ed sells at better rates..i actually about 10 or so 1952s from him in the past......

[D. Bergin]

What a fascinating look into the mind of a baseball card hoarder this thread is.


A 19-year old 5'10" 155 lb. 1st Baseman, barely out of High School and only one year of C-Ball under his belt. The Pirates must have been in desperate need of a 1st baseman that year.

He never saw the majors again, but went on to have a pretty respectable minor league career, mostly at AAA.

[pclpads]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

He never saw the majors again, but went on to have a pretty respectable minor league career, mostly at AAA.

He went on to be the Pirates trainer for many years. Back in the 70's, he signed my / his '52 and '53 Topps cards. I remember he took the '52 and was showing it to other Pirates sitting in the dug out. Maybe none believed him to be a former Pirate player? Nice man, very friendly.

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

The problem is they will die with their collections..so yeah 20-30 years from now you may see those set breaks.. but you may be the only 1 bidding so you can get them cheap by then....plus there are many raw out there that havent been graded...people can pay what they want but it still going to be a ways to go for the card to be rare on the market...plus really only the ex+or better is what the the registry collectors are looking for... however i will let them know...i sold most of 1952 set to several of the set collectors and thats how i know them..
...

To me, I get just as excited about a PSA 1 as a PSA 6.... if I see it available, I want it just as bad. I don't mind paying $200 for a 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. If it's raw and ungraded and looks bad, to me it's worth $150 at least regardless of condition. Of course I do recognize the extra rarity of a 7 and up, & paying handsomely for those.....but overall, I like #332 and try to win it just as aggressively no matter the condition or grade, & usually end up paying the same range for any 1-4 grade of it ($250 or less).

Out of the 346 PSA graded #332, I have about 50 of them now. So almost 20% is in my possession. I have 37 more to get graded to spike the PSA pop. Now owning 20% of the PSA population of #332 does seem to be influencing things lately. Of course, I have zero of the 4 PSA 9's and only 1 PSA 8, but it's an OC Qualifier. Hopefully I'll be able to get a few of the 32 PSA 8's by the end of the year (one is on Robert Edwards now, & one is on Heritage Auctions next month, thanks for the tips guys).

My dad used to have breakfast with him, and Stargell and Richie Zisk & Sanguillen at the pantry (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restauran...alifornia.html) next to the Los Angeles Biltmore Hotel (where the Pirates would stay).... My Dad got a ball signed from Clemente 2 weeks before he died in the plane crash. My dad was 14 then.

My Dad says he changed his last name to make it easier for announcers to pronounce.... 3 syllables instead of 4.... "Bar - tah - rome .......instead of Bar - tah - ro - mo....

Seems simple to me, but no one ever pronounces our name right.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

To me, I get just as excited about a PSA 1 as a PSA 6.... if I see it available, I want it just as bad. I don't mind paying $200 for a 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. If it's raw and ungraded and looks bad, to me it's worth $150 at least regardless of condition. Of course I do recognize the extra rarity of a 7 and up, & paying handsomely for those.....but overall, I like #332 and try to win it just as aggressively no matter the condition or grade, & usually end up paying the same range for any 1-4 grade of it ($250 or less).

Out of the 346 PSA graded #332, I have about 50 of them now. So almost 20% is in my possession. I have 37 more to get graded to spike the PSA pop. Now owning 20% of the PSA population of #332 does seem to be influencing things lately. Of course, I have zero of the 4 PSA 9's and only 1 PSA 8, but it's an OC Qualifier. Hopefully I'll be able to get a few of the 32 PSA 8's by the end of the year (one is on Robert Edwards now, & one is on Heritage Auctions next month, thanks for the tips guys).

My dad used to have breakfast with him, and Stargell and Richie Zisk & Sanguillen at the pantry (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restauran...alifornia.html) next to the Los Angeles Biltmore Hotel (where the Pirates would stay).... My Dad got a ball signed from Clemente 2 weeks before he died in the plane crash. My dad was 14 then.

My Dad says he changed his last name to make it easier for announcers to pronounce.... 3 syllables instead of 4.... "Bar - tah - rome .......instead of Bar - tah - ro - mo....

Seems simple to me, but no one ever pronounces our name right.

there are probably 750-1000 of those cards in the States when all said and done........did you win the card on REA?

[mooch]

This is a fascinating thread, and surely it is an economic experiment. The buyer "announces" that he will be buying X card at above-market prices. How will the market react? Will price move? How many cards exist (supply)? I think it would be fun to try this myself if I had already cornered the market and were really a seller (as some have hinted); rationally, one oughtn't buy the cheap talk and assume this is a best response to a previously assemble position. Beyond this, this experiment is generating a lot of information that was not previously available to all. What is the true supply of high numbers from 1952? I hope that we all continue to track this, preferably, in the post-war forum. It is a nice extension of the Curt Flood experiment, where the buyer was a real buyer but did not announce his intentions in advance.

My contribution to the experiment: A key supply indicator is the PSA pop reports. So, why not take the OP's 20-25% of the PSA supply, crack them, and resubmit. Then, you will have about 50% of the published supply. All buyers will then see high pop reports but zero/low supply on EBAY and elsewhere. This would look like an anomaly to market observers, and it might generate interest. Perhaps, more velocity in the #332 turnover/marketing out of collections.

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by mooch

My contribution to the experiment: A key supply indicator is the PSA pop reports. So, why not take the OP's 20-25% of the PSA supply, crack them, and resubmit. Then, you will have about 50% of the published supply. All buyers will then see high pop reports but zero/low supply on EBAY and elsewhere. This would look like an anomaly to market observers, and it might generate interest. Perhaps, more velocity in the #332 turnover/marketing out of collections.

Interesting. Well, I could crack all PSA 1's - 4's & resubmit, but that is costly, & since I am in it as a collector & not to manipulate the market, there is no incentive unless I just like chaos & anarchy.

I won't risk cracking 5's & up & getting them a lesser grade.

I've asked a few #332 owners to sell me theirs (at double the market price) & they have refused because it was part of their set. So some just cannot be bought right now. Even the recent PSA 5 that had a $450 buy it now with best offer that went for $360, could not be re-bought for $500 when I asked the seller to tell the buyer to contact me if he wanted to make a nice quick profit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...-/111785024544 I won't pay $500 for a PSA 5, but the seller kept saying he passed my message on to the buyer at $400 so I just tried to smoke him out with a $500 offer, but still no response. $400 is the max I will pay for a PSA 5. I'm young - I can wait out some of these owners until they set break or fall on hard times.

I was going to wait until I had 100 ungraded #332's and then submit all for grading so I can get the $8 per card grading fee.

I will take a new group shot of all the #332's and update here once the PSA 8 from REA arrives.

I find it strange that I have never seen any of the 11 BGS graded #332's offered online anywhere:



There were 11 last week, now 12. Even the 2s, 4s, and 4.5 has never been seen. They aren't high grades so maybe not in sets? I still have zero BGS #332's.

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

there are probably 750-1000 of those cards in the States when all said and done........did you win the card on REA?

YES

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=38312

Don't like how my auto bid kept getting bumped up after $900 in after hours bidding. I've never seen a PSA 8 go for more then $950 (on eBay last year with a buy it now). Other then that, it's done $400-$600 on other websites from my research....

But yes, I won it for $1,300.

Heritage has one next month. We will see what happens.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

YES

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=38312

Don't like how my auto bid kept getting bumped up after $900 in after hours bidding. I've never seen a PSA 8 go for more then $950 (on eBay last year with a buy it now). Other then that, it's done $400-$600 on other websites from my research....

But yes, I won it for $1,300.

Heritage has one next month. We will see what happens.

the one on REA was pretty offcentered...the heritage one may go for more....I bought the #12 Basgil which I think is one of the rarest 1952s to get in a black back and paid less than 1300 funny

[egri]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

there are probably 750-1000 of those cards in the States when all said and done

Just curious, how did you arrive at a population of 750-1000? I'm not doubting you, I was just wondering.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by egri

Just curious, how did you arrive at a population of 750-1000? I'm not doubting you, I was just wondering.

well there are probably just as many raw bad condition cards then there are graded cards...there are around 375 graded cards that puts it at 750....people dont submit psa 1 common high numbers....plus there got to be some more beter conditon cards out there..its a guess..but there are a ton of raw cards out there..i got 2 or 3 good condition baritromes i bought raw that were psa 7-8s the last 2 years and im just a little guy i not scouring the US looking for cards.....