Buying all #332 Tony Bartirome 1952 Topps cards + his Gold Canary + Griffey + Tiger

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Wow, if Net54 is the haystack, I just found the needle.

I am glad I amused you

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by dollarscholar

I am glad I amused you

And just to prevent any confusion, I meant ZERO disrespect in the comment. It's actually a refreshing and welcome thing to encounter a collector here who takes a fairly disinterested position on centering. (And no disrespect to the centering guys either--each to his own.)

[autograf]

I like the 1000+ range...............maybe 1250 or more.

349 graded by PSA
36 graded by SGC
12 graded by BGS
397 Total

In his picture he has 15 graded and 28 ungraded. So assume of the 397, there are some regrades on the high end. 10-15% maybe? that'd get you down to 350-360 or so. If the graded to ungraded number holds out at 2-1, you'd be easily at 1000+. I tend to think that theres a lot ungraded of this stuff out there. Especially Topps cards.

There are 1287 Graded PSA Mantles and 389 SGC graded, total 1676. So they're likely re-graded at a higher level than the norm for 1952T right? But then there's ungraded ones out there. Likely a LOT less than 2-1 on them and it's a DP card. So the 1000 number has to be pretty good if not low on the Bartirome. JMO................

[judsonhamlin]

I know this is the BST but this thread has a life of its own so if I may:

-I am not a 1952 Topps guy. I have a low number near-set in mid grade but have not bought a card in years. I have one (1) of each card that I have (and no Bartirome), so I don't really have a dog in this race.

-I find this kind of hoarding odd and more than a little annoying. Okay, I get the whole one for each of the kids, cousins, great-grand nephews, what have you. But unless the family in question looks like the one from the opening scene of Monty Python's Meaning of Life, I think they are covered and then some.

-so now we have an apparently well-heeled individual actively trying to corner the market on this card. To what end? Presuming he is a Bartirome relative does not obviate another profit-based motive. Again no crime in that, and maybe I am being cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few years from now these reappeared in the market at inflated prices.

-I place this in the same category as Titus, 1964 Curt Flood, and other hoards known and unknown. Not my thing and an annoyance, I am sure, to set collectors everywhere.

-If I happen across a Bartirome at some store or show maybe I will buy it now. But I won't tell. Its my contrary nature.

[jason.1969]

Perhaps I'd feel differently if I were hoping to complete a 1952 or 1964 set, but I think it's awesome that there are guys who are hoping to buy everything out there. From my reads, neither our Bartirome collector nor the Flood collector are specifically trying to rig the market--both have sentimental reasons for their quixotic quests.

I love seeing collectors who are passionate about the players and the cards, particularly when so much of the "Hobby" is about money these days. True, it takes an awful lot of disposable cash to support this Bartiromania, but there is a love I see here that I just don't when I read all about PSA 8s that get mailed in over and over until they become 9s.

[judsonhamlin]

Fair point. But I do see a line between collecting and obsessing/hoarding. And, even taking the OP at face value, I'm not sure where this falls. I am not a flipper, investor or serial submitter and that part of this hobby/business holds no allure for me either.
And, why not the cheaper 1953 Bartirome instead/as well?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin

Fair point. But I do see a line between collecting and obsessing/hoarding. And, even taking the OP at face value, I'm not sure where this falls. I am not a flipper, investor or serial submitter and that part of this hobby/business holds no allure for me either.
And, why not the cheaper 1953 Bartirome instead/as well?

relax..the guy said he is young and just started....as we know things happen in a year or two.....all it takes is him not buying back a card at inflated prices and everything collapses....now if this goes on for 5 years or so...save this message and we can revisit..but cant really talk about cornering the market after a year etc...gonna need a LOT of set breaks to occur over time......life happens , things in peoples lives change..which impacts collecting...we shall see.... but fun to talk about now for sure..

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Perhaps I'd feel differently if I were hoping to complete a 1952 or 1964 set, but I think it's awesome that there are guys who are hoping to buy everything out there. From my reads, neither our Bartirome collector nor the Flood collector are specifically trying to rig the market--both have sentimental reasons for their quixotic quests.

I love seeing collectors who are passionate about the players and the cards, particularly when so much of the "Hobby" is about money these days. True, it takes an awful lot of disposable cash to support this Bartiromania, but there is a love I see here that I just don't when I read all about PSA 8s that get mailed in over and over until they become 9s.

Thanks Jason for your fond thoughts.

So the 32 PSA 8's on the pop report for the #332, would you say there are probably only 10 of them to obtain?

[dollarscholar]

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin

I know this is the BST but this thread has a life of its own so if I may:

-I am not a 1952 Topps guy. I have a low number near-set in mid grade but have not bought a card in years. I have one (1) of each card that I have (and no Bartirome), so I don't really have a dog in this race.

-I find this kind of hoarding odd and more than a little annoying. Okay, I get the whole one for each of the kids, cousins, great-grand nephews, what have you. But unless the family in question looks like the one from the opening scene of Monty Python's Meaning of Life, I think they are covered and then some.

-so now we have an apparently well-heeled individual actively trying to corner the market on this card. To what end? Presuming he is a Bartirome relative does not obviate another profit-based motive. Again no crime in that, and maybe I am being cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few years from now these reappeared in the market at inflated prices.

-I place this in the same category as Titus, 1964 Curt Flood, and other hoards known and unknown. Not my thing and an annoyance, I am sure, to set collectors everywhere.

-If I happen across a Bartirome at some store or show maybe I will buy it now. But I won't tell. Its my contrary nature.

Let me know if this potential future scenario would annoy you? Perhaps after I do not see a single Bartirome ever listed on eBay or auction houses across the net for an entire year straight, I will be content with my collection. Perhaps I will then set aside 20 of them for the descendants & the rest (100's at that point, I assume 10 years from now to not see one cross the net for a year), I will just flood eBay with all at once. You & others would then be able to buy them up for under $50 each maybe, since there will be hundreds of active auction style listings all going & ending at the same time. Wouldn't that be fun!

Until then, if you come across a #332, let my offer to pay double what you paid for it tempt you until you cave

I truly am not in #332 for the money. My $500/$1000 bills and gold/silver collections, YES.

[dollarscholar]

You guys asked why I am not buying the 1953 Bartirome.

Actually I have bought about 10 of them, usually PSA 6's. I imagine I will buy a few more PSA 5's and 6's here & there, a few times a year going forward.

But I am not equally obsessed about "hoarding" the 1953 Topps Bartirome UNLESS it is PSA 7's & up, as I am about the 1952 Topps Bartirome in ANY condition.

I did win this 1953 PSA 8 last week:



& previously won a few PSA 8's on eBay in the $150 range.

I see a PSA 7 on eBay now from PWCC, so I will be bidding at the end.

I would love to find the 4 PSA 9's of the 1953 Bartirome.

I equally want to hoard the 2011 Topps Gold Canary Bartirome. 10 exist, and I have 1 of them.

I do not know why it does not interest me to go down the entire list of 1953 Bartirome listings & buy them all up. I did flirt with the idea of doing so a few times, but when I looked at the offerings, there were too many. Is discouraged the right word? There are a 100 listings right now, & I assume that a week after I clear the listings, another 100 would pop up. I assume there are 10,000's of them? So the fact that they are not rare, & we value & find "special" in what's rare is 1 factor why hoarding ALL 1953 Bartirome does not interest me. Also, I want a challenge & the challenge has to have me be able to at least see, if not reach the finish line. With the 1953 Bartirome, I perceive an endless supply & therefore the challenge seems impossible & pointless. Then there is the emergency doomsday factor, that if I did in fact need to liquidate (because as was mentioned, life happens, maybe a financial catastrophe happens or unemployment, or a combination of having to get a wedding ring, having children, & wife expenses happen - then I don't believe I could liquidate 1953 Topps Bartirome's except the PSA 7's and 8's. Gold, silver, $500/$1000 bills are easy to pawn/liquidate immediately. That goes for the 1952 Topps Bartirome too. Easy to liquidate for a fair share of my money back if it was an absolute necessity to do so. I don't want to pour thousands into 1953 Bartirome when I can never recover much of it back!

Finally, & most importantly, is the lack of story attached to the 1953 Topps set. The powerful story of the 1952 Topps set is what hooked me on collecting my family member's card! As a kid I would always see a single, ungraded, not even in a top loader, 1953 Topps Bartirome in my Dad's desk drawer. Never did I even know Tony had a 1952 Topps card. Never did my Dad even know! I played little league in the 1990's and idolized Griffey & mimicked his swing. My Dad was never a card collector, & was unaware of the 1952 Topps set. I was only aware of 1989 Upper Deck and the 1990 Topps No Name Frank Thomas & all cards after that.

So I saw that 1953 Topps Bartirome just sitting around in Dad's desk drawer for years & years, maybe even taking it to school in 3rd 4th 5th grade bragging how my family member was a pro baseball player!

We have always known the 1953 Topps Bartirome to be worth just a couple of dollars. We had searched it before on eBay, but never saw a 1952 Topps mixed into that search.

It wasn't until 2014 that I read the story of 1952 Topps HIGH NUMBERS. How it was a huge failure & they dumped cases upon cases into the ocean! Read about Alan Rosen & the 1952 Topps find in the guys attic. All the rich legendary stories about this card set! Found out Tony Bartirome was in this set! I knew this set to be the famous Mickey Mantle card set, & was blown away that #332 was none other then my family member! Tony a part of the same set as Mickey Mantle's famous card!!! I printed out the numerous stories about the infamous ocean dump & how the high numbers came to be so rare, & gave my Dad some reading material along with a PSA 2 #332 Bartirome. I told him, "Can you believe that Tony is a part of the most popular trading card set in history!?!?" & that it has this amazing story about dumping the last fourth of the cards in the set INTO THE OCEAN!?!?!? AND THAT TONY'S CARD HAPPENS TO BE IN THIS INFAMOUS FATED HIGH NUMBER GROUP!? LOOK AT THESE PRICES THAT TONY'S 1952 TOPPS GOES FOR!!!!!"

I showed him a printed out recent sales from eBay showing $100-$300 for Bartirome PSA 1's to 5's. He was so amused, & just shaking his head like WOW. We know Tony was not much of a ball player, but we are proud nevertheless that he made it & that he is part of this historic, most popular card set & legendary story about dumping high numbers into the ocean. He took that PSA 2 to his work where he proudly shows it off thanks to me.

I got a late start on collecting it, & have only been at it since fall of 2014, but I've made up for lost time well, nearing 100 #332's now. It sucks doing a google search for Bartirome #332 & seeing that these different auction houses sold #332 for much lower amounts then I am used to paying, but some of these sales I see go back to 2005. Wow, it would have been nice to have grabbed this PSA 8 for $682 or this PSA 8 in 2010 for $528. I would have bid $1,000+ on these!!! I even missed this PSA 6 just last year for $170, are you kidding me!?!? $170!?!?!? I would have bid $400!!!! (just months before I became aware of the existence of the card, but still didn't think to look anywhere, but eBay until this month!!!!). Even once I was buying them up on eBay this year, I was unaware that sellers would be willing to sell them off eBay, so I even missed this PSA 3 for $120!!!! I would have bid $300 for it!!! I see such higher prices on eBay, & so much more competition in the bidding, then these off ebay auction houses that are showing only 1 bid for some of these Bartirome's!!!!!! I don't know what would possess these websites to not sell what they get - on eBay! What's 6% ebay fees if you have an eBay store for $15 a month!? Well, now I know & last few weeks I have been signing up with every off ebay auction house there is. Disappointed only Heritage Auctions has an alert feature for BARTIROME search, & disappointed I just paid $1,500+ for my first true PSA 8 from REA (with buyer's premium added) when I see HA had the most recent PSA 8 sold for $597 just in 2013! I have been sending the owner offers through HA's offer tool, but the offers have gone unanswered. I did see a PSA 8 hit eBay very briefly last year when I just begun buying them, & did not yet comprehend that a PSA 8 is hard to find so when I saw the seller's $1,000 buy it now with offer option, I thought offering $700 was good enough, but someone offered $950 & the seller took it fast.

So can someone explain why even just in a 2 year period a PSA 8 would have stayed around $600 in 2005, 2010 & 2013 with these off eBay auction houses & then gone all the way up to $1,300 this month with my purchase?

Now you know the 4 reasons why I gravitate to the 1952 Topps Bartirome over the 1953 Topps Bartirome.

Thanks everyone for making this a great conversation.

I think I will post again with an updated picture of the collection. I will push hard to get 100 of them in the picture. A few $300 offers to buy a few PSA 4-5 ungraded condition #332's have presented itself, & waiting on REA's PSA 8 to arrive.

[autograf]

Neat story......I would argue that you cost yourself some on the REA PSA8 at $1500 as there may have been someone here reading this story that pushed it up. Who knows. Regardless, your quest continues. At 100, you probably have 5-10% of the known population if it's 1000-2000. You talk about liquidity and I'd argue that if you needed to liquidate the 1952's, it would be at a fraction of what you could liquidate the 1953's at in terms of a percentage. Of course, they just don't hold the interest for you. So how far into this are you? $50,000? That would buy a lot of much more liquid Gold or Silver Bullion or $500/$1000 bills in a much more liquid, much more widely-held market. Some people are silver stackers, you are a Bartirome stacker.............