T206 Wagner value after Mastro confesses to cutting it

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by bcornell

Mark is being kind. This T206 Wagner is now radioactive and will never sell for anything like the $2.8mm price that Ken Kendrick paid, at least not while all of us are above ground. You could buy a legit one for far less and not have to deal with the stink emanating from this card.

Thanks, Bill Mastro, for your large contribution in destroying the hobby.

Bill

I know it doesn't mean much because I don't have the money, but if I did I would bid 2.8 mil for this card in a heartbeat. I have to assume that there are at least two people with the funds who feel the same way. A PSA 3 just sold for 1.3, and I think that was before the buyer's premium. I would expect the PSA 5 to sell in the 2-2.8 range, and the 8 to go for more.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I know it doesn't mean much because I don't have the money, but if I did I would bid 2.8 mil for this card in a heartbeat. I have to assume that there are at least two people with the funds who feel the same way. A PSA 3 just sold for 1.3, and I think that was before the buyer's premium. I would expect the PSA 5 to sell in the 2-2.8 range, and the 8 to go for more.

I would agree with this. The card is in the hands of someone who is wealthy and will only sell for a profit. There are other wealthy people who would pay up to own this card.

Also, it may not be the nicest Wagner. I have heard that there is an ungraded one much nicer than the 5s and not trimmed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

I would agree with this. The card is in the hands of someone who is wealthy and will only sell for a profit. There are other wealthy people who would pay up to own this card.

Also, it may not be the nicest Wagner. I have heard that there is an ungraded one much nicer than the 5s and not trimmed.

The HOF has one that is close to NM.

EDIT TO ADD By today's standards, perhaps not quite. In any event, I believe this is the one. All roads seem to lead to Bill.

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I know it doesn't mean much because I don't have the money, but if I did I would bid 2.8 mil for this card in a heartbeat. I have to assume that there are at least two people with the funds who feel the same way. A PSA 3 just sold for 1.3, and I think that was before the buyer's premium. I would expect the PSA 5 to sell in the 2-2.8 range, and the 8 to go for more.

The card now has a permanently ugly legacy that can't be wished away. It's not an 8, it's a card that PSA was duped into grading an 8. I'm going to bet you'd find much better places to stash your $2.8mm.

Bill

[HRBAKER]

And, if it's trimmed 8's you're into you most likely find plenty of them for a lot less money.

[Peter_Spaeth]

IF PSA hasn't made a deal with Kendrick, see the posts about it not appearing in the pop report or cert check, I agree with J.C. and others that it likely will go up. Trimmed or not is really beside the point given the card's unique notoriety.

[Brian Van Horn]

What I would be interested in would be finding what kind of a hit the collections such as Olbermann, Barkman and Masson took to their overall worth.

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

IF PSA hasn't made a deal with Kendrick, see the posts about it not appearing in the pop report or cert check, I agree with J.C. and others that it likely will go up. Trimmed or not is really beside the point given the card's unique notoriety.

The card is certainly notorious, that is unassailable. But, notoriety cuts both ways. I can't agree that the fact of its being trimmed is beside the point. To me (who has no serious money so take these views for what they're worth), much of the card's value pre-Mastro prosecution was the public perception that the card had survived for over 100 years in nearly pristine condition. Of course, it did but not having been issued in a pack and handled by folks through the years like the other Wagners. Instead, all now know that the card was preserved on a sheet until the 70s when Mastro and others realized they were sitting on a goldmine, so to speak. So, comparing it to other Wagner cards is really inapt. It truly is unique but, now that its notorious history is on the public record, I continue to believe its value will taper off over time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Mastro confessed in 2013, or in any event it was made public then. There is nothing new this week.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by mark evans

The card is certainly notorious, that is unassailable. But, notoriety cuts both ways. I can't agree that the fact of its being trimmed is beside the point. To me (who has no serious money so take these views for what they're worth), much of the card's value pre-Mastro prosecution was the public perception that the card had survived for over 100 years in nearly pristine condition. Of course, it did but not having been issued in a pack and handled by folks through the years like the other Wagners. Instead, all now know that the card was preserved on a sheet until the 70s when Mastro and others realized they were sitting on a goldmine, so to speak. So, comparing it to other Wagner cards is really inapt. It truly is unique but, now that its notorious history is on the public record, I continue to believe its value will taper off over time.

It was fairly well-known or highly suspected that the card had been trimmed since at least the mid-'90's. I can recall a number of conversations I had with various dealers to that effect after the Gretzky/McNall purchase.

Larry

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

It was fairly well-known or highly suspected that the card had been trimmed since at least the mid-'90's. I can recall a number of conversations I had with various dealers to that effect after the Gretsky/McNall purchase.

Larry

Yup. It was strongly suspected even at the time of the Copeland auction in 1991.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by bcornell

The card now has a permanently ugly legacy that can't be wished away. It's not an 8, it's a card that PSA was duped into grading an 8. I'm going to bet you'd find much better places to stash your $2.8mm.

Bill

I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens next time it goes up for sale, assuming it's still in the PSA 8 holder. I just think with the notoriety the card has, the fact that it was trimmed but still ended up in an 8 holder won't matter to some. I'm not saying it shouldn't matter, but I don't think it will. I would spend the money, if I had it, because I would believe that I could sell it for much more.

Let's hope someday my net worth is high enough that this is a real decision I have to make and not a hypothetical one.