T206 Wagner value after Mastro confesses to cutting it

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

IF PSA hasn't made a deal with Kendrick, see the posts about it not appearing in the pop report or cert check, I agree with J.C. and others that it likely will go up. Trimmed or not is really beside the point given the card's unique notoriety.

The card is certainly notorious, that is unassailable. But, notoriety cuts both ways. I can't agree that the fact of its being trimmed is beside the point. To me (who has no serious money so take these views for what they're worth), much of the card's value pre-Mastro prosecution was the public perception that the card had survived for over 100 years in nearly pristine condition. Of course, it did but not having been issued in a pack and handled by folks through the years like the other Wagners. Instead, all now know that the card was preserved on a sheet until the 70s when Mastro and others realized they were sitting on a goldmine, so to speak. So, comparing it to other Wagner cards is really inapt. It truly is unique but, now that its notorious history is on the public record, I continue to believe its value will taper off over time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Mastro confessed in 2013, or in any event it was made public then. There is nothing new this week.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by mark evans

The card is certainly notorious, that is unassailable. But, notoriety cuts both ways. I can't agree that the fact of its being trimmed is beside the point. To me (who has no serious money so take these views for what they're worth), much of the card's value pre-Mastro prosecution was the public perception that the card had survived for over 100 years in nearly pristine condition. Of course, it did but not having been issued in a pack and handled by folks through the years like the other Wagners. Instead, all now know that the card was preserved on a sheet until the 70s when Mastro and others realized they were sitting on a goldmine, so to speak. So, comparing it to other Wagner cards is really inapt. It truly is unique but, now that its notorious history is on the public record, I continue to believe its value will taper off over time.

It was fairly well-known or highly suspected that the card had been trimmed since at least the mid-'90's. I can recall a number of conversations I had with various dealers to that effect after the Gretzky/McNall purchase.

Larry

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

It was fairly well-known or highly suspected that the card had been trimmed since at least the mid-'90's. I can recall a number of conversations I had with various dealers to that effect after the Gretsky/McNall purchase.

Larry

Yup. It was strongly suspected even at the time of the Copeland auction in 1991.

[1880nonsports]

quite a few things were thought to have been altered from that collection as expressed to me at the time by a couple of hobby friends....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

quite a few things were thought to have been altered from that collection as expressed to me at the time by a couple of hobby friends....

Yes, a good part of it allegedly came from Mastro so no surprise there.

[xplainer]

So correct me if I'm wrong, this card was cut from a sheet - which makes it a "scrap" in the collecting world. Then, it was trimmed later, and submitted to PSA as 00000001 (or there abouts). It resulted in a PSA 8. Is that it in a nutshell?
I mean, PSA is constructed on this lie? Please respond....because I'd like to know.

If that is true, what has Joe O said about this? Getting in late I know, But I (and others) would like to know info on this.

Please take and run.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I believe what you said is correct as to the chronology. In 2013 David Hall was reported to have stated at a PSA lunch that he examined the card personally in 1991 and that it was not trimmed. I don't know what Joe has said, or if PSA has said anything subsequent to 2013.

One somewhat unfortunate part of the saga is that Alan Ray, who sold the card to Mastro, apparently has refused to give any information about where HE got it, so the provenance stops back in 1985 or so.

[Leon]

I think Joe O was playing college baseball about the time the Wags was graded. I doubt he would comment too much and would leave it to his boss (Hall)....and count me in the group that doesn't think the card has lost value. We'll never know unless it's sold again though.

Originally Posted by xplainer

So correct me if I'm wrong, this card was cut from a sheet - which makes it a "scrap" in the collecting world. Then, it was trimmed later, and submitted to PSA as 00000001 (or there abouts). It resulted in a PSA 8. Is that it in a nutshell?
I mean, PSA is constructed on this lie? Please respond....because I'd like to know.

If that is true, what has Joe O said about this? Getting in late I know, But I (and others) would like to know info on this.

Please take and run.