OT: Greatest Living Four

tbob · #1 07-15-2015, 03:59 PM

With the game on the line and a win is crucial, how can you go with anyone other than Bob Gibson? Too many collectors here never had a chance to see him pitch. Koufax was great, but in the BIG game, Gibson was the man.

My other 3: Mays, Aaron and Yogi. Berra was CLUTCH. Bench was great, Berra was better.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 07-15-2015, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbob

With the game on the line and a win is crucial, how can you go with anyone other than Bob Gibson? Too many collectors here never had a chance to see him pitch. Koufax was great, but in the BIG game, Gibson was the man.

My other 3: Mays, Aaron and Yogi. Berra was CLUTCH. Bench was great, Berra was better.

Koufax WS ERA 0.95. Gibson 1.89. Gibson had a better WL. I would call it even at best.

aro13 · #3 07-15-2015, 05:21 PM

Bonds
Mays
Aaron
Schmidt, Henderson or Morgan

Pitchers
Seaver
Gibson
Clemens
Pedro

kgibson · #4 07-16-2015, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbob

With the game on the line and a win is crucial, how can you go with anyone other than Bob Gibson? Too many collectors here never had a chance to see him pitch. Koufax was great, but in the BIG game, Gibson was the man.

Here's some Gibby World Series info. In his 9 games he was 7-2 with 5 consecutive victories. In those 9 games he started he pitched 8 complete games. The other game he pitched 8 innings then he was lifted for a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 8th. And speaking of his hitting, in his 9 World Series games he hit 2 home runs. Tim McCarver said "Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher I ever saw. He always pitches when the other team doesn't score any runs."

Vintageclout · #5 07-16-2015, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgibson

Here's some Gibby World Series info. In his 9 games he was 7-2 with 5 consecutive victories. In those 9 games he started he pitched 8 complete games. The other game he pitched 8 innings then he was lifted for a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 8th. And speaking of his hitting, in his 9 World Series games he hit 2 home runs. Tim McCarver said "Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher I ever saw. He always pitches when the other team doesn't score any runs."

Very true and people sometimes forget Gibson's 1968 Game 7 loss was largely due to Curt Flood's misplayed fly ball. the outcome might have been different.

Tabe · #6 07-16-2015, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgibson

Here's some Gibby World Series info. In his 9 games he was 7-2 with 5 consecutive victories. In those 9 games he started he pitched 8 complete games. The other game he pitched 8 innings then he was lifted for a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 8th. And speaking of his hitting, in his 9 World Series games he hit 2 home runs. Tim McCarver said "Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher I ever saw. He always pitches when the other team doesn't score any runs."

He actually won 7 straight - his last 2 starts in 1964, all 3 in 1967, and the first 2 in 1968.

Fun stat: Bob Gibson wasn't knocked out of a single game in 1968. Every time he got pulled, it was for a pinch hitter.

darwinbulldog · #7 07-16-2015, 11:09 AM

Unexpected stat: Zack Greinke's 2015 Adjusted ERA+ is better than Gibson's 1968.

Not that I expect it to hold up, but it's a hell of an accomplishment to carry that past the All-Star break.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 07-16-2015, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabe

He actually won 7 straight - his last 2 starts in 1964, all 3 in 1967, and the first 2 in 1968.

Fun stat: Bob Gibson wasn't knocked out of a single game in 1968. Every time he got pulled, it was for a pinch hitter.

How the hell do you lose 9 with a 1.12 ERA? Rhetorical question, but wow.

darwinbulldog · #9 07-16-2015, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How the hell do you lose 9 with a 1.12 ERA? Rhetorical question, but wow.

Hi, I'm Ned Garvin.

Career ERA: 2.72 (better than some HOFers, Sandy Koufax for example)
Career record: 58-97
Seasons with a winning record: 0

aro13 · #10 07-16-2015, 11:47 AM

Quote:

WIth year after year of an ERA under 2 one suspects he was pretty good on the road too. I am doubting Dodger Stadium explains his greatness.

Peter - Dodger Stadium does not explain his greatness but it helps to explain why he made the big alleged jump forward in 1962 and say not 1960.

In 1960 on the road 105 innings 3.00 era 8 hrs allowed 51 bbs 126 ks
In 1960 at home 70 innings 5.27 era 12 hrs allowed 49 bbs 71 ks
In 1961 on the road 123 innings 2.77 era 8 hrs allowed 45 bbs 124 ks
In 1961 at home 132 innings 4.22 era 19 hrs allowed 51 bbs 145 ks
In 1962 on road 81 innings 3.53 era 7 hrs allowed 32 bbs 98 ks
In 1962 at home 102 innings 1.75 era 6 hrs allowed 25 bbs 118 ks

For his career at Dodger Stadium he was 57-15 with a 1.37 era.
For his career on the road after 1962 he was 54-19 with a 2.54 era.

The point is that Koufax did not make a great jump forward in 1962 because he finally listened and took something off his fastball and threw his curve when he was behind in the count. All that happened was he went from a park (the Coliseum with a 250 foot left field line) that added 75 points a year to his era to one that took off 60 points a year.

He was already very good or even great - look at his road numbers in 1960 and 1961.

Peter_Spaeth · #11 07-16-2015, 11:51 AM

Did Drysdale have a similar trajectory? Or was the old park only tough for lefties?

Interesting stats, although causation is sort of difficult to prove. Any other lefties who dramatically improved after 62?

Peter_Spaeth · #12 07-16-2015, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabe

He actually won 7 straight - his last 2 starts in 1964, all 3 in 1967, and the first 2 in 1968.

Fun stat: Bob Gibson wasn't knocked out of a single game in 1968. Every time he got pulled, it was for a pinch hitter.

Is there any evidence that today's pitchers, who pitch every 5th day instead of every 4th, and of course are on pitch counts and rarely go the distance, are hurt less than back when men were men?

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