OT: Greatest Living Four

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

He actually won 7 straight - his last 2 starts in 1964, all 3 in 1967, and the first 2 in 1968.

Fun stat: Bob Gibson wasn't knocked out of a single game in 1968. Every time he got pulled, it was for a pinch hitter.

How the hell do you lose 9 with a 1.12 ERA? Rhetorical question, but wow.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How the hell do you lose 9 with a 1.12 ERA? Rhetorical question, but wow.

Hi, I'm Ned Garvin.

Career ERA: 2.72 (better than some HOFers, Sandy Koufax for example)
Career record: 58-97
Seasons with a winning record: 0

[aro13]

WIth year after year of an ERA under 2 one suspects he was pretty good on the road too. I am doubting Dodger Stadium explains his greatness.

Peter - Dodger Stadium does not explain his greatness but it helps to explain why he made the big alleged jump forward in 1962 and say not 1960.

In 1960 on the road 105 innings 3.00 era 8 hrs allowed 51 bbs 126 ks
In 1960 at home 70 innings 5.27 era 12 hrs allowed 49 bbs 71 ks
In 1961 on the road 123 innings 2.77 era 8 hrs allowed 45 bbs 124 ks
In 1961 at home 132 innings 4.22 era 19 hrs allowed 51 bbs 145 ks
In 1962 on road 81 innings 3.53 era 7 hrs allowed 32 bbs 98 ks
In 1962 at home 102 innings 1.75 era 6 hrs allowed 25 bbs 118 ks

For his career at Dodger Stadium he was 57-15 with a 1.37 era.
For his career on the road after 1962 he was 54-19 with a 2.54 era.

The point is that Koufax did not make a great jump forward in 1962 because he finally listened and took something off his fastball and threw his curve when he was behind in the count. All that happened was he went from a park (the Coliseum with a 250 foot left field line) that added 75 points a year to his era to one that took off 60 points a year.

He was already very good or even great - look at his road numbers in 1960 and 1961.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Did Drysdale have a similar trajectory? Or was the old park only tough for lefties?

Interesting stats, although causation is sort of difficult to prove. Any other lefties who dramatically improved after 62?

[aro13]

Peter - For Koufax the move to Dodger Stadium, the raising of the mound height and the redefinition of the strike zone in 1963 are all factors.

Drysdale's numbers did not improve as dramatically but he was far better in Dodger Stadium. His lowest era at Dodger Stadium was 1.37 and his highest was 2.60. On the road his best era was 2.39 and his worst was 4.65.

Between 1963 and 1968 Dodger Stadium in particular was a very tough place to hit. The Dodgers scored 100 more runs on the road then at home virturally every season between 1963 and 1968.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I will have to go back and read Bill James, who is very hip to park effects, to see what he says about Koufax. Given how close Marichal was to him statistically over the four year stretch, I wonder if they were really closer in ability than the conventional wisdom would have it.