Bill Mastro's upcoming sentencing

[Exhibitman]

Unfortunately the UCC is not uniform across jurisdictions. Many states enact their own modified versions. I ran across one such variance between states in a case and it made a difference in the outcome.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Unfortunately the UCC is not uniform across jurisdictions. Many states enact their own modified versions. I ran across one such variance between states in a case and it made a difference in the outcome.

Did you win or lose that one Adam?

[calvindog]

While I'm sure all of the civil lawyers mean well, I think you're doing a disservice to Leon who, as noted in the Heritage catalog, was engaging in "philanthropy" by selling his collection to pay for his daughter's education. I say this sincerely that I think the last thing he would then want to have happen is to use a legal loophole to keep a card stolen from the New York Public Library. Kind of the opposite of "philanthropy," you know?

[Peter_Spaeth]

This civil lawyer does not believe such a loophole exists, assuming the card was stolen. But if someone can point me to something contrary....

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This civil lawyer does not believe such a loophole exists, assuming the card was stolen. But if someone can point me to something contrary....

I'm controlling myself from making the obvious joke here....

[Exhibitman]

Won it, Dan.

It depends on how the item was taken. A burglar gets nothing by way of title in the USA. An embezzler, check kiter or similar criminal fraudster gets voidable title that may be cleared by a bona fide purchaser. It depends on which version of the UCC the state uses. Quite apart from that is the issue of limitations. A lawsuit to reclaim an item after the theft of a readily identifiable item that has gone through multiple public sales over decades may be deemed to be untimely even if the original thief obtained only void (no) title.

As for the rest of the commentary re lawyers, I hope that every lawyer would analyze the issues based on getting his or her client what he or she wants, regardless of the outcome. My client may be a crook but he is entitled to the full benefit of the law same as I am. If there is a chance that the client has good title I need to advise accordingly even if I disagree. We all represent our share of scumbags, right counsellors?

fWIW if it was my card involved I would force them to prove it was stolen before I hand it back. Sorry but I'm not going to hand $50k or more to someone on the basis of anything written here no matter how well intentioned.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Won it, Dan.

It depends on how the item was taken. A burglar gets nothing by way of title in the USA. An embezzler, check kiter or similar criminal fraudster gets voidable title that may be cleared by a bona fide purchaser. It depends on which version of the UCC the state uses. Quite apart from that is the issue of limitations. A lawsuit to reclaim an item after the theft of a readily identifiable item that has gone through multiple public sales over decades may be deemed to be untimely even if the original thief obtained only void (no) title.

As for the rest of the commentary re lawyers, I hope that every lawyer would analyze the issues based on getting his or her client what he or she wants, regardless of the outcome. My client may be a crook but he is entitled to the full benefit of the law same as I am.

fWIW if it was my card involved I would force them to prove it was stolen before I hand it back. Sorry but I'm not going to hand $50k or more to someone on the basis of anything written here no matter how well intentioned.

Adam if the card was stolen then it was stolen by someone who walked out of the building with it, not by some means by which the thief acquired voidable title. That seems reasonably clear. And I agree with you there possibly could be a statute of limitations issue, as I previously mentioned, but that is a separate question from whether a bona fide purchaser could acquire good title.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

As for the rest of the commentary re lawyers, I hope that every lawyer would analyze the issues based on getting his or her client what he or she wants, regardless of the outcome. My client may be a crook but he is entitled to the full benefit of the law same as I am. If there is a chance that the client has good title I need to advise accordingly even if I disagree. We all represent our share of scumbags, right counsellors?

Wow, so you mean you don't conspire with your clients when they do bad things? Because I've heard otherwise.

[wonkaticket]

Peter good question. Look let's be honest the Feds come and take one of your items as potentially stolen. Then let's say it's returned with "hey this thing is fishy but we are limited on resources and limited by law on what we can do here. However heads up this is an issue you may want to look into, in the end can't tell you what to do."

I think the better question is why as a collector would you not want to exercise all due diligence to either clear the misunderstanding up. Or better yet look to make yourself whole if in fact you were duped. This is what the avg. collector which I consider myself to be would do. Now let's set a differnt set of rules on top of this that wouldn't apply to the average collector like many of us.

Leon is a public figure who is outspoken and bold in talking about fraud. He's an owner of an auction company as well as the owner of the hobby's premier message board. A message board famous for outing and detailing issues like this within the hobby.

These reasons and the others I have previously posted is why I think a bit more due diligence was needed from Leon on this. Before offering this card for sale public or private. Also let's be really candid we didnt need a CSI crime lab to figure this out. Chris and Nash did it in a matter of seconds using non original scans and what PhotoShop and a PC?

Leon has the card in his hands what he doesn't have a computer? How does he post from Western Union via telegraph? He doesn't have access to a scanner? That must make putting up those auction lots for B&L tough? He doesn't have access to countless experts, hobbyists and people with computer skills that he could call on for help. I don't know some sort of web based community or something. If one could find such a community. I wonder if there has ever been a situation where folks of this so called community were able to look at marks on cards and determine something that helped obtain a clear outcome for all parties involved.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=112134

Sorry to be so sarcastic but if Leon wanted to know the deal he could have.

Cheers,

John