Bill Mastro's upcoming sentencing

[jmk59]

Originally Posted by Leon

If it is proven it was stolen from the library, and they ask for it back, I will give it back to them free and clear.

I can't believe this statement is getting dissected the way it is. If I had a card worth $50,000 or $60,000 or whatever, you'd better believe that I'd need proof it was stolen before returning it. Probably really strong proof. And if the NYPL isn't even interested enough to ask for it back, is Leon supposed to just FedEx it over anyways?

It's all so easy-breezy when it's someone else's money in play. So yeah. I have to admit that if this were my card and my money, I'd be thinking of a whole lot of angles before deciding what to do. But some proof that my $60K item was, in fact, stolen plus a request for it's return would be the absolute floor - the dead minimum - of what I'd require.

JMO.

[autograf]

There you go Joann.......throwing some logic on the fire.......

I'd agree on the thorough vetting of it. On the surface, it sure looks like the NYPL card. What recourse would Leon have with who he bought it from and their consignor? I'd pursue that avenue too.

Hopefully it gets resolved soon.........

[poorlydrawncat]

Originally Posted by jmk59

I can't believe this statement is getting dissected the way it is. If I had a card worth $50,000 or $60,000 or whatever, you'd better believe that I'd need proof it was stolen before returning it. Probably really strong proof. And if the NYPL isn't even interested enough to ask for it back, is Leon supposed to just FedEx it over anyways?

It's all so easy-breezy when it's someone else's money in play. So yeah. I have to admit that if this were my card and my money, I'd be thinking of a whole lot of angles before deciding what to do. But some proof that my $60K item was, in fact, stolen plus a request for it's return would be the absolute floor - the dead minimum - of what I'd require.

JMO.

It's not a question of whether they want it back. Libraries have few resources and a lot of red tape to get through. Recovering a stolen item back isn't an easy process when you're a government-owned institution, you have a lot of bureaucracy to get through.

Only reason I take issue with it is because in the past libraries have had things stolen from them, and even when it's proven, the libraries haven't had the resources to formally request the return of the item. it's actually really sad.

[jmk59]

Originally Posted by poorlydrawncat

It's not a question of whether they want it back. Libraries have few resources and a lot of red tape to get through. Recovering a stolen item back isn't an easy process when you're a government-owned institution, you have a lot of bureaucracy to get through.

Only reason I take issue with it is because in the past libraries have had things stolen from them, and even when it's proven, the libraries haven't had the resources to formally request the return of the item. it's actually really sad.

True, probably. But IMO that still doesn't mean that Leon is somehow a jerk for wanting to know with some certainty that it's stolen, have a simple request for its return, and gosh maybe some time to think about it before he just tosses a mid-5-digit card in the mail.

Badgering him to commit RIGHT NOW right here in this forum to returning it forthwith, hang the proof of stolen and with no request, is really absurd. No one else would. Lord knows I certainly wouldn't.

[poorlydrawncat]

Originally Posted by jmk59

True, probably. But IMO that still doesn't mean that Leon is somehow a jerk for wanting to know with some certainty that it's stolen, have a simple request for its return, and gosh maybe some time to think about it before he just tosses a mid-5-digit card in the mail.

Badgering him to commit RIGHT NOW right here in this forum to returning it forthwith, hang the proof of stolen and with no request, is really absurd. No one else would. Lord knows I certainly wouldn't.

I wasn't asking him to commit to anything with the knowledge we have currently. I was asking him in the hypothetical situation where the NYPL confirms it's stolen but does not have the resources to formally ask for it back, whether or not he'd return it.

Honestly I think if this were about someone else, Leon would be chiming in right now saying he'd return the card if it was his and everyone else would do the same. But because it's Leon's card I think people are treating it differently, which is a bit unfair. Or maybe not, who knows really.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by jmk59

True, probably. But IMO that still doesn't mean that Leon is somehow a jerk for wanting to know with some certainty that it's stolen, have a simple request for its return, and gosh maybe some time to think about it before he just tosses a mid-5-digit card in the mail.

Badgering him to commit RIGHT NOW right here in this forum to returning it forthwith, hang the proof of stolen and with no request, is really absurd. No one else would. Lord knows I certainly wouldn't.

Amen, If this was my card I would do my due diligence as well. I don't know Leon but will assume 50K is a big number to him.

The grandstanding on this thread is a little over the top - one guy claims he would spend night and day trying to find the history of the card. My guess is that guy would sell the card private and wash his lands, like the large majority of folks on this board would do.

I also can't think of any other forum on the internet where the owner lets the members take runs at him, it's fascinating to watch.

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by japhi

The grandstanding on this thread is a little over the top - one guy claims he would spend night and day trying to find the history of the card. My guess is that guy would sell the card private and wash his lands, like the large majority of folks on this board would do.

If you have anymore guesses in the future Matt, will you at least try to make them educated guesses?

[GaryPassamonte]

This thread starts out questioning the sentence of a profligate lawbreaker and ends up berating an individual for not returning an item, not legally proven to be stolen, and finally to trust the same legal system to help him recoup his possible losses from who knows who. Yeah, sounds like a good idea. I would say this would be a time for caution, not haste.

[travrosty]

If it was Burdick's Wagner from the Met instead of this card, and otherwise the same circumstances, would we even be discussing loopholes on how to keep it?

[poorlydrawncat]

Originally Posted by travrosty

If it was Burdick's Wagner from the Met instead of this card, and otherwise the same circumstances, would we even be discussing loopholes on how to keep it?

Of course not, if it were anyone else the board would be crucifying them. Not that that's necessarily acceptable either, just pointing out the blatant double standard.

I mean looking for legal loopholes for ways Leon could keep the card? Seriously? The hypocrisy is pretty slimy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jmk59

I can't believe this statement is getting dissected the way it is. If I had a card worth $50,000 or $60,000 or whatever, you'd better believe that I'd need proof it was stolen before returning it. Probably really strong proof. And if the NYPL isn't even interested enough to ask for it back, is Leon supposed to just FedEx it over anyways?

It's all so easy-breezy when it's someone else's money in play. So yeah. I have to admit that if this were my card and my money, I'd be thinking of a whole lot of angles before deciding what to do. But some proof that my $60K item was, in fact, stolen plus a request for it's return would be the absolute floor - the dead minimum - of what I'd require.

JMO.

Wow, it seems like years since you have posted. Welcome back. How is your law practice going?

[jmk59]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Wow, it seems like years since you have posted. Welcome back. How is your law practice going?

Thanks Peter. I do crawl out from under my rock every now and then. The practice is going well. I'm enjoying the flexibility but can also see that it would have been better to do this when I was younger! Hope all is well with you.

[JMEnglish27]

Originally Posted by jmk59

I can't believe this statement is getting dissected the way it is. If I had a card worth $50,000 or $60,000 or whatever, you'd better believe that I'd need proof it was stolen before returning it. Probably really strong proof. And if the NYPL isn't even interested enough to ask for it back, is Leon supposed to just FedEx it over anyways?

It's all so easy-breezy when it's someone else's money in play. So yeah. I have to admit that if this were my card and my money, I'd be thinking of a whole lot of angles before deciding what to do. But some proof that my $60K item was, in fact, stolen plus a request for it's return would be the absolute floor - the dead minimum - of what I'd require.

JMO.

This. Leon's a good guy in my book. I dunno how his integrity can be in doubt. FBI looked at it, told him it was fine, now it turns out it might not be, so he's in wait-and-see mode. What's he supposed to do, take a polygraph in the town square?