Bill Mastro's upcoming sentencing

[poorlydrawncat]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

We have known SINCE YESTERDAY of the NYPL stamp. Show me where "the community" knew this before yesterday.

That's kinda my point...

FBI didn't notice the stamp, community did. And the FBI were the ones actively investigating it. Wouldn't you think the FBI would think to check for the stamp from the institution where it was reported stolen? It took the community to figure that out, not the FBI. And yea it took some time but it still happened before the FBI, which doesn't do much for my confidence in them. That's all I'm saying.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by poorlydrawncat

That's kinda my point...

FBI didn't notice the stamp, community did. And the FBI were the ones actively investigating it. Wouldn't you think the FBI would think to check for the stamp from the institution where it was reported stolen? It took the community to figure that out, not the FBI. And yea it took some time but it still happened before the FBI, which doesn't do much for my confidence in them. That's all I'm saying.

You may well be right in hindsight that the FBI did not do its homework, I don't know. But again, at the time in question, I am not sure Leon was on notice of that, such that he should have (as John is claiming) undertaken an independent forensic investigation to "clear" the card.

[poorlydrawncat]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You may well be right in hindsight that the FBI did not do its homework, I don't know. But again, at the time in question, I am not sure Leon was on notice of that, such that he should have (as John is claiming) undertaken an independent forensic investigation to "clear" the card.

Oh I totally agree with you there. I think Leon did all the due diligence with the card in regards to the FBI. I probably would have done the same thing. That being said, I don't have all the evidence and a lot of people are accusing Leon of knowing more than he let on. Again, I'm not really entrenched enough in the hobby to make that determination myself, but if it's true it would be really disheartening.

I was just kinda concerned about the way Leon was reacting to the evidence of the NYPL stamp, but I also understand why he's defensive about it considering he spent so much money on it and is probably reluctant to part with it. I just hope he's as morally rigorous when it comes to himself as when it comes to others. But it's too early to tell that, we'll know by the end of the auction.

[Exhibitman]

Nice post Joann. Hate to sound all lawyerly here but has anyone considered that Leon might be the lawful owner of the card? A minority of states (and I believe Texas is one) allow a thief or his successor to convey good title to a bona fide purchaser. Before we bust out the tar and feathers I think we need an answer to that question.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Nice post Joann. Hate to sound all lawyerly here but has anyone considered that Leon might be the lawful owner of the card? A minority of states (and I believe Texas is one) allow a thief or his successor to convey good title to a bona fide purchaser. Before we bust out the tar and feathers I think we need an answer to that question.

I find that hard to believe, I thought the rule throughout the US was nemo dat quod non habet -- a thief cannot convey good title, therefore a subsequent purchaser cannot acquire good title. Always happy to learn though.

EDIT TO ADD I suppose there could be some variance in state statutes of limitation, but again, I would be surprised if any state allowed a subsequent purchaser's rights to prevail over an original owner whose goods were stolen. As the common law doctrine says, nobody can give what he doesn't have.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I find that hard to believe, I thought the rule throughout the US was nemo dat quod non habet -- a thief cannot convey good title, therefore a subsequent purchaser cannot acquire good title. Always happy to learn though.

You and your damn French.

Tom C

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

You and your damn French.

Tom C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnOcwy3Jle0

[Exhibitman]

Unfortunately the UCC is not uniform across jurisdictions. Many states enact their own modified versions. I ran across one such variance between states in a case and it made a difference in the outcome.

[nolemmings]

Interesting full faith and credit implications, or at least issues concerning interstate commerce. If seller is lawful owner under his State's law, does buyer's State have to recognize the sale as valid if it would otherwise not be? If any buyer in the chain of title after thief lived in a State that recognizes a BFP as having a valid interest, are all subsequent States where buyers reside bound to that same determination? I've actually got to go bill some time now, but crackerjack researcher and scholar Peter_Spaeth no doubt will have an informed response upon my return

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Interesting full faith and credit implications, or at least issues concerning interstate commerce. If seller is lawful owner under his State's law, does buyer's State have to recognize the sale as valid if it would otherwise not be? If any buyer in the chain of title after thief lived in a State that recognizes a BFP as having a valid interest, are all subsequent States where buyers reside bound to that same determination? I've actually got to go bill some time now, but crackerjack researcher and scholar Peter_Spaeth no doubt will have an informed response upon my return

For these very reasons, and the fact that we have a Uniform Commercial Code, I very much doubt the law varies according to state. But I am not going to research it any more than to note a quick google search reveals a scholarly article stating the principle I stated as the American rule.

[baseballart]

In case anyone is interested, the NYPL library contact information is:

Robert J. Vanni
Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary
The New York Public Library, Astor, Lenox and Tilden Foundations
Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street
New York, New York 10018-2788
tel. (212) 930-0744
fax (212) 391-2503
rvanni@nypl.org


I'm not sure if this is still current. When I contacted Robert on an auction item a few years ago, he advised that it had been de-accessioned. He also welcomed queries on any other item where title might be in question.

Max