Please show a card more rare than Wagner (T206)

[jb217676]

Great cardboard guys! Here are a few tough ones that I own.

[Jobu]

Jeff, I absolutely love that Mathewson! Thanks for posting it, I didn't even know it existed (like many other cards in this thread - thanks to you all).

Another cool thing about the Pastime Novelty Mathewson - that card is also Caspar the Friendly Ghost's rookie.

Originally Posted by jb217676

Great cardboard guys! Here are a few tough ones that I own.

[DixieBaseball]

Incredible bouquet of cardboard in this thread. The Holmes Joe and the Baltimore Ruth are easily my personal favorites, but those Nadja & Williams Wags are way more scarce than the T206 Wagner and awesome. The Type 1 Coupons are not even fighting fair as most of those are at 10-15 examples or less and not even close to the T-Wags. Seeing all this talent really makes me even question why the T206 Wags is valued so high. This may sound crazy, but I don't think I would want to invest 6 figures in it. What makes it worth so much? There is no rarity. Perhaps minimal scarcity. Only bloated fascination that has amplified over the decades. To be clear I am not a hater (just don't understand is more like it...) and think it's a neat card but so many more HOFer's in the T206 set are more scarce with backs like Lenox, etc. Let me digress and throw a few more that are way more scarce than the T-Wags. Great net 54 participation! Keep em coming.

[DixieBaseball]

2 more rare Bays... One being from T-Wag's set and much more scarce.

[HRBAKER]

Pretty sure this qualifies. May be close

[CW]

Very impressive, Raymond. You should go for a complete set!

And that's a great looking Wagner there, Dan. I'll take VG 3s like that all day.

[t213]

a few more

Andy

[Leon]

Originally Posted by DixieBaseball

.... Seeing all this talent really makes me even question why the T206 Wags is valued so high. This may sound crazy, but I don't think I would want to invest 6 figures in it. What makes it worth so much? There is no rarity. Perhaps minimal scarcity. Only bloated fascination that has amplified over the decades. To be clear I am not a hater (just don't understand is more like it...) and think it's a neat card but so many more HOFer's in the T206 set are more scarce with backs like Lenox, etc. .....

The value of the T206 Wags has very little to do with rarity (population) as it has more to do with scarcity (people wanting one). I venture to guess I have literally hundreds, maybe a thousand, cards more rare than Wags...but none remotely as valuable..

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Leon

The value of the T206 Wags has very little to do with rarity (population) as it has more to do with scarcity (people wanting one). I venture to guess I have literally hundreds, maybe a thousand, cards more rare than Wags...but none remotely as valuable..

Hey Leon, one major thing that the Wagner has going for it is hobby lore and tradition. And when something gets that ensconced in the hobby psyche, it essentially becomes part of the collecting fabric, which, will essentially allow for monetary growth regardless of its rarity.

[pbspelly]

Leon is absolutely correct. There are tons of cards rarer than the Wagner (including, I would guess, my Plow's Candy below), but few or none that have the Wagner T206 combination of
1) top 10 Hall-of-Famer
2)hugely popular card series (T206)
3)scarcity
4) interesting back story (the whole tobacco thing, whether true or not).
Not to mention famous owners, such as Gretzky.

[MVSNYC]

Leon is absolutely correct. There are tons of cards rarer than the Wagner (including, I would guess, my Plow's Candy below), but few or none that have the Wagner T206 combination of
1) top 10 Hall-of-Famer
2)hugely popular card series (T206)
3)scarcity
4) interesting back story (the whole tobacco thing, whether true or not).
Not to mention famous owners, such as Gretzky.

.................................................. ..........................................

Well put.

# 1, 2 & 4 = Desirability. There have been many cards posted in this thread that are WAY scarcer than the T206 Wagner, BUT almost all lack the overall desirability.

Supply/Demand.

[DixieBaseball]

[QUOTE=Leon;1362635]The value of the T206 Wags has very little to do with rarity (population) as it has more to do with scarcity (people wanting one). I venture to guess I have literally hundreds, maybe a thousand, cards more rare than Wags...but none remotely as valuable..

LL - I sorta get what you are saying, but why do people want one? When did people start wanting one? Who drove this card to the peak of the hobby and when did it register ? (What year?)

I think Brent nailed it : "... When something gets ensconced in the hobby psyche..."

So when did the Wags take off and become important? 1950's ? Why did that happen?

As far as Top 10 HOFer, T206 set, etc. --- That would easily apply to Cobb. So why not Cobb ? Which Cobb with a T206 back would fit in that 60-80 examples known range?

I believe the Baltimore Ruth will eventually become the Pinnacle card in the hobby. It's sorta already happening the last few sales... It's getting there. Cobb w/ Cobb back is too rare perhaps. I would rather own it over the Wags, but that is just me.

Good discussion, guys - Here's another one that is more rare than T-Wags :

[Robextend]

Only a couple graded between PSA and SGC

[pbspelly]

[QUOTE=DixieBaseball;1362991]

Originally Posted by Leon

As far as Top 10 HOFer, T206 set, etc. --- That would easily apply to Cobb. So why not Cobb ? Which Cobb with a T206 back would fit in that 60-80 examples known range?

I believe the Baltimore Ruth will eventually become the Pinnacle card in the hobby. It's sorta already happening the last few sales... It's getting there. Cobb w/ Cobb back is too rare perhaps. I would rather own it over the Wags, but that is just me.

As someone else pointed out, the rare Cobb T206 cards have to do with a rare back. Whereas the rare Wagner T206 is (I believe) the only T206 with Wagner on the front. So the Wagner is desirable even for folks who are not into rare backs.

That said, I agree that a Cobb w/Cobb back is cooler than the Wagner at this point.

[Leon]

[QUOTE=pbspelly;1363086]

Originally Posted by DixieBaseball

As someone else pointed out, the rare Cobb T206 cards have to do with a rare back. Whereas the rare Wagner T206 is (I believe) the only T206 with Wagner on the front. So the Wagner is desirable even for folks who are not into rare backs.

That said, I agree that a Cobb w/Cobb back is cooler than the Wagner at this point.

The Wags and the '52 Mantle transcend the hobby. There are people that own them that don't collect cards. They own them because they are feathers in a cap, status symbols....and damn good investments so far.
Barely any, if any, other baseball cards do that.

[DixieBaseball]

As someone else pointed out, the rare Cobb T206 cards have to do with a rare back. Whereas the rare Wagner T206 is (I believe) the only T206 with Wagner on the front. So the Wagner is desirable even for folks who are not into rare backs.

That said, I agree that a Cobb w/Cobb back is cooler than the Wagner at this point.[/QUOTE]

... but the Wagner T206 is not rare at all with sweet cap back and not rare with it's front either... There are about a hundred of them out there... They are simply wanted for their celebrity value. They have been over marketed along with the Mantle to be the "it" cards of our hobby for 50 years. I think that the Wags "was" a good investment, but I don't believe it has much more appreciation ahead over the coming decades. (I could be wrong of course...) I still think the the T-Wags is a nice looking portrait though and a nice collectible.

Agreed with Leon's point on the Wags & Mantle rook... as someone pointed out early... they have been ensconced in the psyche of the public as the "it" cards to own.