Ripped off by a James Spence lifetime guarantee

[bender07]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Is there any way to prove the ball in question is actually the same one the original Spence letter documented? There was over a decade in-between the drafting of that letter and your purchase.

Agreed, is there anything tying the ball to the letter?

Also, the ball in question is clearly forged.

[Runscott]

There is a much longer thread about this over in another forum where Eric is a much more extensive poster. It might shed additional light on the matter.

Apparently Spence only reached out to Eric once Eric had gone public with this.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Apparently Spence only reached out to Eric once Eric had gone public with this.

And it's a Stengel ball. What's it gonna cost him?

It's not like it was, say, a forged 1927 Yankees ball that he once authenticated.

[khw]

if the original link was that stangel brothers or whatever that is it was posted there the 17th , and posted on here the 18th ,who knows how long it went before that though , i doubt anybody was bullied into giving the money back , would have been just as easy to say that balls fake and i never sold it , and the letter went with another baseball. whatever time he spent with jsa the company doesnt matter here , they didnt write the letter. if spence refunded it then give the guy a hand for doing the right thing and take a second from the ole bash the tpa

[khw]

i mean some of you guys just wont be happy, he doesnt refund it and he is a scum bag , if he refunds it then it was only because he was forced to in some stupid forum , and he really is a bad guy and doesnt know anything but the power of the public forum got to him so chalk another up to the crusaders

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

And it's a Stengel ball. What's it gonna cost him?

It's not like it was, say, a forged 1927 Yankees ball that he once authenticated.

lol...in a sad way.

[johnmh71]

I'm not trying to come to anyone's defense, but how do we know that this is the same ball that Spence wrote the COA for? Because the other dealer said so?

[JimStinson]

because he has already given a refund maybe that's a clue ...the other option is to pay to have Spence's letter authenticated ...maybe he didn't write it and its a forgery ...lets keep it real
___________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

REAL autographs for sale on my web site at
stinsonsports.com

[shelly]

What a stupid question. Not one person includeing Spence has denied he did the authentication. It just took him way to long to admit for the first time I know of that he made a mistake. That was because he had no way out. If it was one of us that did not have the connections to make him look bad it would have never happened.
Every time you see a piece come down at an auction that he did. Do you ever see them say he made a mistake? Have all of you that have come to his defence ever see him admit a mistake. If so please show me.

[johnmh71]

Like I stated in my earlier post, I wasn't looking to come to anyone's defense. Both JSA and PSA have made their mistakes. I was just simply raising the question.

[Exhibitman]

Of course the OP called JSA to speak to Spence. It is his company. It is him at the National fronting for it. It ain't like he's a celebrity lending his name to WalMart for a TPA line. Of course there are muckrakers on N54, because there is quite a bit of muck to rake in this hobby. Of course TPAs make mistakes, because unless you saw the athlete put pen to paper or ball it is all a matter of opinion. None of that is debated or debatable or worthy of a rehash. What is at the core here is accountability. There are lots of 'experts' in this hobby who are long on opinions but short on assuming responsibility for them. A collector should not have to shame or strong-arm or sue a TPG/TPA/dealer into honoring a guarantee, but that is where this hobby has gone because so many of them refuse to stand behind their work product until they are shamed or sued.

[khw]

Originally Posted by Runscott

There is a much longer thread about this over in another forum where Eric is a much more extensive poster. It might shed additional light on the matter.

Apparently Spence only reached out to Eric once Eric had gone public with this.

OK then that would be a different story if he tried to resolve it and he just avoided him , but a previous post brought up something i thought of as well. unless the letter had a image or marked ball there is nothing to tie the ball to the letter , almost like a auction letter . this was pre sticker , photo letter etc . like i said before in this business you take one of the chin ever so often , and if you want to buy and sell you better have some knowledge of what you are doing and not go on anybodys letter or card , i would not have bought that ball even if it had a present day jsa full letter

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by khw

OK then that would be a different story if he tried to resolve it and he just avoided him , but a previous post brought up something i thought of as well. unless the letter had a image or marked ball there is nothing to tie the ball to the letter , almost like a auction letter . this was pre sticker , photo letter etc . like i said before in this business you take one of the chin ever so often , and if you want to buy and sell you better have some knowledge of what you are doing and not go on anybodys letter or card , i would not have bought that ball even if it had a present day jsa full letter

That's how I feel about it as well. A JSA letter means nothing to me, even if it has a photo of the item, but without a photo the letter should be worthless even to those who put confidence in letters.

But the problem with COA's for any product is that you should be able to trust them - their entire purpose is to give a customer confidence where he would otherwise have none. Even worse for JSA and PSA items, as those two companies are considered the best, and do huge amounts of business with high-dollar items, which allows them to point to such items and give their buyers even more false confidence.

Collectors like us should know better, but folks on the edge of autograph collecting might have to take a few lumps as you pointed out. Not fair, but that's how it is.

[EricS]

As I mentioned in the longer article, JSA had originally told me they wouldn't talk to me about it because James Spence the person wrote the guarantee, not JSA.

The good news is, I just spoke to James Spence on the phone and he agreed to return my money. I want to thank him for doing the right thing here.
Eric

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by EricS

As I mentioned in the longer article, JSA had originally told me they wouldn't talk to me about it because James Spence the person wrote the guarantee, not JSA.

The good news is, I just spoke to James Spence on the phone and he agreed to return my money. I want to thank him for doing the right thing here.
Eric

Eric, thanks for embarrassing him into doing the right thing. It's a good precedent for future victims.

[Duluth Eskimo]

So the bottom line is that the person did the right thing and honored his lifetime guarantee even after being thrown under the bus in a public forum. I would suggest in the future to possibly ask the person privately before being going public, but that wouldn't allow you to post on your web site.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

So the bottom line is that the person did the right thing and honored his lifetime guarantee even after being thrown under the bus in a public forum. I would suggest in the future to possibly ask the person privately before being going public, but that wouldn't allow you to post on your web site.

It's in the original link - you must have missed it.

[Exhibitman]

Strange that it took a public flogging to get a just outcome? I think not. Sometimes you need to shine a light into the corners to get the roaches to scurry.

"Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman."--Louis Brandeis

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Runscott

It's in the original link - you must have missed it.

Well, I did read the original link and I would encourage you to read it closer. It says he contacted JSA not James Spence. Yes he is part owner, but he could have just spoken with an employee. Obviously when Spence sold the ball, he was his own entity. Speak with the person Spence and don't expect some employee that has nothing to do with a former business to discuss something they had nothing to do with.

Don't get me wrong, I am not an apologist for the TPA system. I think they make mistakes, but common sense dictates that if you have a problem with a person, speak to that person first. The OP did not do business with JSA, he did business with Spence. I get tired of the stupidity that is TPA bashing. It's an opinion, if you don't like it don't use it. If you are relying solely on their letter, pull your head out of your ass and use some common sense.

[EricS]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

So the bottom line is that the person did the right thing and honored his lifetime guarantee even after being thrown under the bus in a public forum. I would suggest in the future to possibly ask the person privately before being going public, but that wouldn't allow you to post on your web site.

I did try to ask Spence privately. Not sure where you are getting this from. Did you read the original article? I had reached out to Spence to give him the chance to make this right. JSA had said they won't speak to me. They also said that the letter was written by Spence and not JSA so they had nothing to do with it.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by EricS

I did try to ask Spence privately. Not sure where you are getting this from. Did you read the original article? I had reached out to Spence to give him the chance to make this right. JSA had said they won't speak to me. They also said that the letter was written by Spence and not JSA so they had nothing to do with it.

You said you called JSA, not James Spence. JSA is a company with more than James Spence as an owner. If you had called, asked to speak to James Spence Jr and / or specifically sent James Spence Jr (the person) emails without response I would be inclined to agree with you more. JSA the company owes you nothing. Deal with the person you have an issue with