Babe Ruth Ban Johnson Ball

[ATP]

To me neither would be of interest or value to buy, to some the clubhouse might be worth something. I just wanted to know, for information purposes only, nothing at all to do with value.

[Nyygameused]

I go to a game, ask the ballboy if after the game he can get me an autograph. He proceeds after the game into the clubhouse and comes out with a signed baseball.

Assuming we have a "clubhouse" signature, while this baseball may mean the world to me not knowing it is a "clubhouse" sig. The story and feelings mean nothing, once it changes hands it's a forgery.

[David Atkatz]

No, it's not a forgery. There is precise terminology used by serious autograph collectors. It's used for a reason. Take the time to learn and understand it, and you may actually sound like you know what you're talking about.

[Nyygameused]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

No, it's not a forgery. There is precise terminology used by serious autograph collectors. It's used for a reason. Take the time to learn and understand it, and you may actually sound like you know what you're talking about.

David what is my autograph signed by anyone other than me considered? A fake, a fraud, not authentic, non genuine. If someone handed me a baseball and said hey I signed it with David's name so be happy, I'd say what? I understand what a clubhouse sig is, but I'm my opinion it is simply a forgery that came from within

[Mr. Zipper]

A forgery is by definition an unauthorized reproduction that is created for fraudulent purposes.

A proxy signature (clubhouse / secretarial) is an authorized reproduction that emanated from a source known by the intended signer.

With historical material (and most other genres of collecting), there is always a clear distinction between forgery and proxy. The terms are not used interchangeably.

Not sure what it is about the sports crowd, but we have seen this same discussion here numerous times where some insist forgery and proxy are one and the same. Perhaps they both have an equivalent level of desirability to some (zero), but that does not make them the same. Words matter.

[Nyygameused]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

A forgery is by definition an unauthorized reproduction that is created for fraudulent purposes.

A proxy signature (clubhouse / secretarial) is an authorized reproduction that emanated from a source known by the intended signer.

With historical material (and most other genres of collecting), there is always a clear distinction between forgery and proxy. The terms are not used interchangeably.

Not sure what it is about the sports crowd, but we have seen this same discussion here numerous times where some insist forgery and proxy are one and the same. Perhaps they both have an equivalent level of desirability to some (zero), but that does not make them the same. Words matter.

Just my opinion, I'm familiar with both terms. For me an auto in the hand of anyone other than the person implied is an imposter/ forgery.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

A forgery is by definition an unauthorized reproduction that is created for fraudulent purposes.

A proxy signature (clubhouse / secretarial) is an authorized reproduction that emanated from a source known by the intended signer.

With historical material (and most other genres of collecting), there is always a clear distinction between forgery and proxy. The terms are not used interchangeably.

Not sure what it is about the sports crowd, but we have seen this same discussion here numerous times where some insist forgery and proxy are one and the same. Perhaps they both have an equivalent level of desirability to some (zero), but that does not make them the same. Words matter.

+1

It's surprising how many collectors can't grasp the difference or don't care, even when it's spelled out very clearly as you have done. But I guess that is why forgers can get away with adding their work to team balls - worst that can happen is the AH describes them as secretarial, and collectors who don't care about the difference buy them as such. Best case is JSA or PSA authenticates them as real.

[shelly]

Ok I really did not want to bring this up. Most of you know ball players are sent cards to be signed and then placed into a pack. I know for a fact that one of those players had his brother sign all the cards.
What would you call that. I think Ken Golden has heard about this as well.
Remember these cards are being sold as being an authentic autograph.