T206 Dahlen HOF Price Impact - Seeking Opinions.

[t206hof]

The Hof should be the very elite players. Not medicore players. Shouldn't be more than 100 players in. And it's insane how many people they put in that don't belong

[t206hof]

But what happened to pitchers actually completing games? It's long gone, and saves are a joke. A great starting pitcher it 10 times more valuable than a "closer".

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by t206hof

But what happened to pitchers actually completing games? It's long gone, and saves are a joke.

This is such a typical comment when looking only at statistics like IP, CG, etc.

The game has evolved. Guys like Matty and Johnson could pitch WAY MORE INNINGS because the fact is, during the deadball era, pitchers didn't pitch hard until someone got to second base. They were almost lobbing the ball up there until someone was in scoring position. Maybe they would bear down when they had 2 strikes on the hitter, but they mostly conserved there arm until they needed it. Small ball.

This made a defensive SS like Dahlen mega valuable to his team.

[t206hof]

I understand it quite well. But I do not agree with it. It is a bunch of over managing, over paid players.

[t206hof]

Johnson was lobbing the ball??? It was dead ball, those guys were just trying to make contact. Johnson and Matty were by far the best two pitchers there ever will be.

[CMIZ5290]

Dahlen should be in, as well as Ed Reulbach.....Just my thoughts.

[t206hof]

Reulbach's ERA was very very good.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by t206hof

Johnson was lobbing the ball??? It was dead ball, those guys were just trying to make contact. Johnson and Matty were by far the best two pitchers there ever will be.

Yes. They didn't bear down until they had 2 strikes or a runner in scoring position. Do you really think Wajo threw 500+ complete games at 100mph?

[howard38]

Originally Posted by t206hof

Johnson was lobbing the ball??? It was dead ball, those guys were just trying to make contact. Johnson and Matty were by far the best two pitchers there ever will be.

You don't have to take Slipk's word for it, you can read Matty himself describe conserving his energy for the tough spots in his book Pitching in a Pinch.

[t206hof]

Well if he conserved his energy and he still was the 2nd best pitcher in history, that says something about how good he actually was. Crazy good.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by t206hof

The Hof should be the very elite players. Not medicore players. Shouldn't be more than 100 players in. And it's insane how many people they put in that don't belong

This is simply not true. There have been 18,174 total players in major league history and 211 have been inducted as players into the Hall of Fame. Meaning 99.9% have not been called by Cooperstown. The idea that the Hall of Fame is letting everyone in is simply hogwash. Not to mention of the several thousand negro league players who toiled in obscurity due to institutionalized racism only 35 have been inducted (that number should probably be doubled). There is room for PLENTY of more.

[t206hof]

Well this is just my opinion, over half of those do not belong. And it will only get worse. It didn't just start though, there are plenty of T206 guys that have no business being in.

[t206trader]

Originally Posted by t206hof

Well this is just my opinion, over half of those do not belong. And it will only get worse. It didn't just start though, there are plenty of T206 guys that have no business being in.

Who decides who is "good enough" to get in? You? Me? Of course we have differing opinions on what players are hall of fame worthy but to say that half of the current hall of famers are not worthy is a pipe dream. You can't get a bunch of t206 experts to agree on whether Bill Dahlen should be a hall of famer let alone the rest of the hall.

[t206hof]

That is how I feel, I just think it is crazy that DECENT players get in.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

This is simply not true. There have been 18,174 total players in major league history and 211 have been inducted as players into the Hall of Fame. Meaning 99.9% have not been called by Cooperstown. The idea that the Hall of Fame is letting everyone in is simply hogwash. Not to mention of the several thousand negro league players who toiled in obscurity due to institutionalized racism only 35 have been inducted (that number should probably be doubled). There is room for PLENTY of more.

I agree with this in its entirety. Also, I think the NFL is much more forgiving and more easily attainable than the MLB, not even close...Just my 2 cents...

[z28jd]

Someone like Rivera, a failed starting pitcher, will get in on the first ballot and fairly easy I'm sure, but Bill Dahlen, one of the best defensive players of his era(when everyone played small ball) and an above average hitter, people doubt.

Dahlen batted 10,405 times, Rivera faced 5103 batters. So Dahlen spent double the time in the batter's box than Rivera did on the mound, plus played somewhere around 18,000 innings on defense,where remember, he was one of the best back then.

I don't know how anyone can think the relief pitcher that throws one inning is better than one of the best shortstops ever to the point one is iffy and the other is a sure thing. Shouldn't it be totally reversed when talking about these two?

They should have never let Hoyt Wilhelm in the Hall, because that led to Rollie Fingers, down to Goose Gossage, to Bruce Sutter and now we are putting in a one inning pitcher on the first ballot! How ridiculous is that, his position is pitcher, not relief pitcher. If a ball is hit to him and he throws the ball to first base for the out, it goes down as a 1-3 in the scorebook, not RP-3. Their position is pitcher and it's pathetic that someone like Jack Morris gets questioned with all his time on the mound and people throw in failed starters like they accomplished something special.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Someone like Rivera, a failed starting pitcher, will get in on the first ballot and fairly easy I'm sure, but Bill Dahlen, one of the best defensive players of his era(when everyone played small ball) and an above average hitter, people doubt.

Dahlen batted 10,405 times, Rivera faced 5103 batters. So Dahlen spent double the time in the batter's box than Rivera did on the mound, plus played somewhere around 18,000 innings on defense,where remember, he was one of the best back then.

I don't know how anyone can think the relief pitcher that throws one inning is better than one of the best shortstops ever to the point one is iffy and the other is a sure thing. Shouldn't it be totally reversed when talking about these two?

They should have never let Hoyt Wilhelm in the Hall, because that led to Rollie Fingers, down to Goose Gossage, to Bruce Sutter and now we are putting in a one inning pitcher on the first ballot! How ridiculous is that, his position is pitcher, not relief pitcher. If a ball is hit to him and he throws the ball to first base for the out, it goes down as a 1-3 in the scorebook, not RP-3. Their position is pitcher and it's pathetic that someone like Jack Morris gets questioned with all his time on the mound and people throw in failed starters like they accomplished something special.

I wouldn't call Rivera a failed starting pitcher. He was an outstanding starter in the minors but only had a chance to start ten games in the majors which is not enough to establish whether or not he would have failed. If it was then Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine would not be getting inducted into the hall of fame this year. The fact of the matter is that Rivera never got another chance to start because he was so good when he came out of the pen not because he "failed" as a starter.