Wildly Inconsistent PSA Grades

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Most wax stains can easily be removed with a cloth - most people prefer nylons. I have removed plenty of wax stains from cards in my 27 years of collecting and I have never used any type of solution or chemical to do so.

It's still altering a card. Not to say I don't condone it, I have removed wax stains like this in the past.

To the OP, it seems like PSA got your card right 3 out of 3 times. You feel that it was NM-MT, PSA agreed with you the first time and gave you an 8 ST. You removed the stain and it got a 6. Perhaps a grader saw remnants of the stain (most likely scenario) and rightfully knocked the card down a bit. You still thought it was NM-MT and the third grader agreed (either he didn't see the stain or he saw it and felt that it wasn't enough to knock the card down a grade). This is just three separate opinions on the same card. All of the opinions were technically right.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

It's still altering a card.

I'll play your childish game. What is your definition of altering?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'll play your childish game. What is your definition of altering?

I would say altering would be to change the appearance of a card from it's original form..

So, I would consider "original form" as the way it came out of a pack/box/vending machine. So if it came out of the pack with a wax stain, that's how it was issued. I wouldn't consider removing glue residue from the back of a t206 card as altering because that wasn't how it was issued. Just like I wouldn't consider removing a price sticker from a card altering either, but I would consider removing wax stains as alterations.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I would say altering would be to change the appearance of a card from it's original form..

So, I would consider "original form" as the way it came out of a pack/box/vending machine. So if it came out of the pack with a wax stain, that's how it was issued.

Ahhh, ok. Got it. So, if I were to open a 1962 Topps wax pack and the cards were good, but the gum had deteriorated into dust, it wouldn’t be okay to wipe the gum dust from the cards if I wanted to submit them for grading? After all, that’s the “original form” as they came out of the pack. Wow, who knew?

[KCRfan1]

David, what is going on here this morning?

[Republicaninmass]

They are consistently inconsistent, but ce La vie

1952 Topps Merril combs looks like a 9 or better
Was PSA evid trim
Was PSA 6
Was SGC 7
Was PSA 5
Was PSa evid trim

IT AINT TRIMMED

Going to hit 1,000 in grading fees and sell it for 500

[bobbyw8469]

Is removing something that shouldn't have been there in the first place altering?? The card shouldn't have come with wax stain on it. Little Bobby shouldn't have drawn a fu-manchu mustache on Namath's rookie card way back in 1965. That gob of gunk that someone spilled on the card back in 1956 shouldn't have been on there. I know this is a gray area, and I know some people don't agree with Dick Towle, but he said it best. Removal of something that shouldn't have been there in the first place isn't really altering. Trimming an edge or corner, now that is altering.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Is removing something that shouldn't have been there in the first place altering?? The card shouldn't have come with wax stain on it. Little Bobby shouldn't have drawn a fu-manchu mustache on Namath's rookie card way back in 1965. That gob of gunk that someone spilled on the card back in 1956 shouldn't have been on there. I know this is a gray area, and I know some people don't agree with Dick Towle, but he said it best. Removal of something that shouldn't have been there in the first place isn't really altering. Trimming an edge or corner, now that is altering.

Like you said, it's a gray area. I think it all depends on how severe the damage is to the card and how much work is required to fix it. Personally, once we start using chemicals and reagents it is altering in my book, but I'm sure some would disagree.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Question for Jason and Daryl:

If you buy a PSA graded card and there is sticky residue from where a price sticker once was and you clean the residue, are you altering the slab?

Are you slab alterers???

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Ahhh, ok. Got it. So, if I were to open a 1962 Topps wax pack and the cards were good, but the gum had deteriorated into dust, it wouldn’t be okay to wipe the gum dust from the cards if I wanted to submit them for grading? After all, that’s the “original form” as they came out of the pack. Wow, who knew?

I think that is a very interesting interpretation of an otherwise reasonable definition.

Also, I never said altering a card isn't okay. Actually I specifically stated that I don't mind it. I think that we all need to use our best judgment as to what is ethical and reasonable, but small things (like removing wax stains or a price sticker or soaking a card) is alright in my book. I'm sure not too many people would mind if you wipe the gum dust off of a card

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Ahhh, ok. Got it. So, if I were to open a 1962 Topps wax pack and the cards were good, but the gum had deteriorated into dust, it wouldn’t be okay to wipe the gum dust from the cards if I wanted to submit them for grading? After all, that’s the “original form” as they came out of the pack. Wow, who knew?

The discussion about whether or not removing stains is altering a card should have stopped with my post #6. Ridiculous.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

The discussion about whether or not removing stains is altering a card should have stopped with my post #6. Ridiculous.

Your post was ridiculous. It uses the words “whitener” “solution” and “chemical process”

Tell me, is taking a nylon to remove wax from the surface of a card considered a whitener, a solution or a chemical process. I'm awaiting your answer.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Your post was ridiculous. It uses the words “whitener” “solution” and “chemical process”

Tell me, is taking a nylon to remove wax from the surface of a card considered a whitener, a solution or a chemical process. I'm awaiting your answer.

Removing the stain is altering the card regardless of the process. What PSA and SGC are saying is that they can more easily detect stain removal if chemicals were involved. Whether or not you can fool the graders with your card altering skills doesn't change the fact that it's altering.

[MattyC]

If you are collecting and not selling, why do you need some random dude to tell you what you know you have? Love the card and trust your eyes. Admire the card not a sticker.

If selling, I get it.

But as someone noted above, looks like the random, subjective opinions did get it correct at least 2 of 3 times, if not all three.

Baseball players get paid a lot more to go 2 for 3, and that's considered great success

[Fuddjcal]

probably one of the most asinine things I have read about lately...Who in their right mind would be Anal Eddie enough to crack the stupid card 3 times to get a particular grade? You know the grading is subjective, right? You know PSA plays favorites, right? you know that it's a scam right? Who gives a s***?

The fact that they can't tell you doctored the card speaks volumes about what PSA can and can't do.... BOY, I WONDER IF ANY OTHER DOCTORED CARDS made it into slabs for their best customers???This is just laughable in my opinion what card collectors are doing these days.

Me thinks you should crack your head open and submit it to a doctor...