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  #1  
Old 02-06-2014, 07:38 AM
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Daryl
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Are you serious?

http://www.psacard.com/Services/PSAGradingStandards/

"N-7 Evidence of Cleaning - When a whitener is used to whiten borders or a solution is used to remove wax, candy, gum or tobacco stains."

http://www.sgccard.com/grading_scale.htm

"Bleached: Generic term for the chemical process of cleaning or removing stains or dirt."
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2014, 07:44 AM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4815162342 View Post
Are you serious?

http://www.psacard.com/Services/PSAGradingStandards/

"N-7 Evidence of Cleaning - When a whitener is used to whiten borders or a solution is used to remove wax, candy, gum or tobacco stains."

http://www.sgccard.com/grading_scale.htm

"Bleached: Generic term for the chemical process of cleaning or removing stains or dirt."
Most wax stains can easily be removed with a cloth - most people prefer nylons. I have removed plenty of wax stains from cards in my 27 years of collecting and I have never used any type of solution or chemical to do so.
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  #3  
Old 02-06-2014, 07:57 AM
KCRfan1 KCRfan1 is offline
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People who play the lottery usually lose. Have you talked with Mrvintage? He seems to have the same problem as you do. Crack resubmit, crack resubmit, crack resubmit.......except he is unhappy with 9's. Are you happy with your grade now, or can we look forward to another post about cracking and resubmitting because the grade was " wrong "?
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Last edited by KCRfan1; 02-06-2014 at 08:10 AM.
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  #4  
Old 02-06-2014, 07:57 AM
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The title of this thread is rhetorical...right?
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2014, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by KCRfan1 View Post
People who play the lottery usually lose. Have you talked with Mrvintage? He seems to have the same problem. Crack resubmit, crack resubmit, crack resubmit.......except he is unhappy with 9's.
+1 foolish man
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  #6  
Old 02-06-2014, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Most wax stains can easily be removed with a cloth - most people prefer nylons. I have removed plenty of wax stains from cards in my 27 years of collecting and I have never used any type of solution or chemical to do so.
It's still altering a card. Not to say I don't condone it, I have removed wax stains like this in the past.

To the OP, it seems like PSA got your card right 3 out of 3 times. You feel that it was NM-MT, PSA agreed with you the first time and gave you an 8 ST. You removed the stain and it got a 6. Perhaps a grader saw remnants of the stain (most likely scenario) and rightfully knocked the card down a bit. You still thought it was NM-MT and the third grader agreed (either he didn't see the stain or he saw it and felt that it wasn't enough to knock the card down a grade). This is just three separate opinions on the same card. All of the opinions were technically right.
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  #7  
Old 02-06-2014, 08:12 AM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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It's still altering a card.
I'll play your childish game. What is your definition of altering?
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  #8  
Old 02-06-2014, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
I'll play your childish game. What is your definition of altering?
I would say altering would be to change the appearance of a card from it's original form..

So, I would consider "original form" as the way it came out of a pack/box/vending machine. So if it came out of the pack with a wax stain, that's how it was issued. I wouldn't consider removing glue residue from the back of a t206 card as altering because that wasn't how it was issued. Just like I wouldn't consider removing a price sticker from a card altering either, but I would consider removing wax stains as alterations.
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  #9  
Old 02-06-2014, 08:35 AM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhs5120 View Post
I would say altering would be to change the appearance of a card from it's original form..

So, I would consider "original form" as the way it came out of a pack/box/vending machine. So if it came out of the pack with a wax stain, that's how it was issued.
Ahhh, ok. Got it. So, if I were to open a 1962 Topps wax pack and the cards were good, but the gum had deteriorated into dust, it wouldn’t be okay to wipe the gum dust from the cards if I wanted to submit them for grading? After all, that’s the “original form” as they came out of the pack. Wow, who knew?
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  #10  
Old 02-06-2014, 08:37 AM
KCRfan1 KCRfan1 is offline
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David, what is going on here this morning?
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  #11  
Old 02-06-2014, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Ahhh, ok. Got it. So, if I were to open a 1962 Topps wax pack and the cards were good, but the gum had deteriorated into dust, it wouldn’t be okay to wipe the gum dust from the cards if I wanted to submit them for grading? After all, that’s the “original form” as they came out of the pack. Wow, who knew?
I think that is a very interesting interpretation of an otherwise reasonable definition.

Also, I never said altering a card isn't okay. Actually I specifically stated that I don't mind it. I think that we all need to use our best judgment as to what is ethical and reasonable, but small things (like removing wax stains or a price sticker or soaking a card) is alright in my book. I'm sure not too many people would mind if you wipe the gum dust off of a card
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  #12  
Old 02-06-2014, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Ahhh, ok. Got it. So, if I were to open a 1962 Topps wax pack and the cards were good, but the gum had deteriorated into dust, it wouldn’t be okay to wipe the gum dust from the cards if I wanted to submit them for grading? After all, that’s the “original form” as they came out of the pack. Wow, who knew?
The discussion about whether or not removing stains is altering a card should have stopped with my post #6. Ridiculous.
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  #13  
Old 02-06-2014, 09:07 AM
turtleguy64 turtleguy64 is offline
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I don't see a single thing wrong with removing a surface wax stain on the front with a silk stocking which is the preferred method.The reverse wax stain removal is a completely different story.
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  #14  
Old 02-06-2014, 09:13 AM
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So Turtle, are you happy with the grade now?
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  #15  
Old 02-06-2014, 01:23 PM
turtleguy64 turtleguy64 is offline
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Turtleguy is very happy.I had to prove a point with PSA graders,cost me more bucks to prove that one of their graders is not focusing on his job.Case closed.
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