Question regarding top cards on cellos -1979

[japhi]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm not taking up for Jose because I do not know him, have never conducted business with him and have no dog in this fight. However, I read a lot of accusations over here and on the CU boards.

Why can't someone post some solid proof of those accusations? I've recently called out scammers on the main page and I provide proof that links those I've accused directly to the scam (or whatever I've accused them of - e.g. shilling).

However, I have not seen any proof against Jose. If someone can link him to something, then you can change my mind, but it has to be proof positive, no he said / she said stuff.

Please don't PM me with your proof. If someone has proof, let them post it here for all to see.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=162027&page=6

So we know he builds cello's with stars on top and admits those cello's got past PSA. Furthermore he has a history of selling cellos (Google starpaxman) with stars on top.

But I'm to believe that all the cello's he got past PSA are still in his possession and that all the cell's he's sold are good. Ya sure, that passes the sniff test.

You draw your own conclusions

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by japhi

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=162027&page=6

So we know he builds cello's with stars on top and admits those cello's got past PSA. Furthermore he has a history of selling cellos (Google starpaxman) with stars on top.

But I'm to believe that all the cello's he got past PSA are still in his possession and that all the cell's he's sold are good. Ya sure, that passes the sniff test.

You draw your own conclusions

Matt,

Let me start by saying welcome to the boards. I did read that thread at the time and I understand Jose made some fake cello packs, but nowhere have I read that he sold any of them. If he did, I would definitely like to see proof and it would certainly change my mind.

Here is what I think about this whole situation. I believe that Jose did fabricate some packs and they were submitted to PSA for authentication and grading. Steve Hart authenticated the packs and now he looks like a fool, but people are trying to turn it around on Jose because they don't want Steve, whom they put on a pedestal, to look like he is incompetent. Well, the truth of the matter is, if he did authenticate nearly 200 bogus packs, THEN HE IS INCOPETENT! One or two or even a few could be considered a mistake, but over 200? Come on, that is incompetency. If a grader authenticated over 200 counterfeit cards, couldn't we call him incompetent as well? Sure we could. We would be calling for PSA (or whoever the TPG was) to get rid of the guy. Ok, so why does Steve Hart get a free pass? I'm sorry, but I believe people are making Jose out to be the bad guy to take the spotlight of the real problem which is Steve Hart and PSA.

Again, if anybody has any solid proof that Jose sold bogus packs, I would love to hear it and that would definitely change my mind.

David

[pepis]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Matt,

Let me start by saying welcome to the boards. I did read that thread at the time and I understand Jose made some fake cello packs, but nowhere have I read that he sold any of them. If he did, I would definitely like to see proof and it would certainly change my mind.

Here is what I think about this whole situation. I believe that Jose did fabricate some packs and they were submitted to PSA for authentication and grading. Steve Hart authenticated the packs and now he looks like a fool, but people are trying to turn it around on Jose because they don't want Steve, whom they put on a pedestal, to look like he is incompetent. Well, the truth of the matter is, if he did authenticate nearly 200 bogus packs, THEN HE IS INCOPETENT! One or two or even a few could be considered a mistake, but over 200? Come on, that is incompetency. If a grader authenticated over 200 counterfeit cards, couldn't we call him incompetent as well? Sure we could. We would be calling for PSA (or whoever the TPG was) to get rid of the guy. Ok, so why does Steve Hart get a free pass? I'm sorry, but I believe people are making Jose out to be the bad guy to take the spotlight of the real problem which is Steve Hart and PSA.

Again, if anybody has any solid proof that Jose sold bogus packs, I would love to hear it and that would definitely change my mind.

David

Absolutely David.
what we got here is a BLATAN attempt of a cover-up by PSA the pack
corruption is so BIG there is nearly !000 star packs alone in the population
report, that can be identify as BOGUS simply by the mention of the player
on top, most counterfeiters on EBAY keep getting away with it because as you
said there authenticator is incompetent does not have the proper knowledge,
last year i offered to sit down with him an discuss it, and nothing in fact he
is now SELLING BOGUS PACKS IN HIS WEBSITE so needless to say it got worst!

[japhi]

I don't put Steve on a pedestal, don't even collect unopened. I don't for one second believe that Pepis started making fake packs for the greater good of the hobby.

I'm also not naive enough to think that PSA or any other TPG will catch every fake.

Here is what I do know for sure:

Pepis makes fake cello packs with stars on top
Pepis submits packs to PSA and they get slabbed
PSA is not great identifying fake cello's
Pepis sells cello's with stars on top

That's enough info for me to form an opinion, YMMV

[Ksquared]

Jose
I sent you a PM earlier today about trying to learn more about 75-77 cello packs. The whole situation about fake cello packs out there is of interest to me because I have some cello packs bought over the years. Like most, I try to buy from reputable people/dealers. I'm far from an expert and do put some trust in people I think are honest and have strong reputations. Probably a mistake and this whole situation has caused me to be more skeptical in general with our hobby (not a bad thing - live and learn).

What I learned from your PM is that in 1975 only players with a double asterisk on the back of the card (**) can appear on the front of a cello pack. The same would hold true for cello packs in 1976 and 1977. I looked at all the 1975 packs that Fritsch has for sale and they all have top cards with the **, so that backs up what you said.

I have also read from you where you said you haven't sold any of the back packs you had authenticated by PSA.

I then did some research on packs sold by using VCP previous sales over the years. You have sold several packs over the past few years with stars on top. Some of them are ** but many of them are not. If what you said hold true all of the time (as you said it did), then can you explain these sales attributed to your ebay id. (edited). All of these packs have a single asterisk (*):

cert#19449158 (Willie Mays #203 on top) sold for $120.27 on 1/3/12
cert#18517511 (Thurman Munson #20 on top) sold for $229.72 on 12/13/11
cert#19414015 (Dave Winfield #61 on top) sold for $185.50 on 1/4/12
cert#18517503 (Robin Yount #223 on top) sold for $500 on 11/17/11
cert#18777946 (Mickey Mantle MVP #194 on top) sold for $147.50 on 8/17/11

There were a bunch of other sales for 1975 and 1977 packs that I didn't check so this is just a sample of those that I found that didn't meet the criteria you said.

In your PM you mentioned that you typically want to address these questions in public so that I why I posted here instead of back through PM.

Just to be transparent, I have a 1975 pack with Brooks Robinson on the top and that card has a single asterisk. The cert# is sandwiched between packs that you sold but I did not buy it from you directly.

Thanks
Jim

[pepis]

Originally Posted by Ksquared

Jose
I sent you a PM earlier today about trying to learn more about 75-77 cello packs. The whole situation about fake cello packs out there is of interest to me because I have some cello packs bought over the years. Like most, I try to buy from reputable people/dealers. I'm far from an expert and do put some trust in people I think are honest and have strong reputations. Probably a mistake and this whole situation has caused me to be more skeptical in general with our hobby (not a bad thing - live and learn).

What I learned from your PM is that in 1975 only players with a double asterisk on the back of the card (**) can appear on the front of a cello pack. The same would hold true for cello packs in 1976 and 1977. I looked at all the 1975 packs that Fritsch has for sale and they all have top cards with the **, so that backs up what you said.

I have also read from you where you said you haven't sold any of the back packs you had authenticated by PSA.

I then did some research on packs sold by using VCP previous sales over the years. You have sold several packs over the past few years with stars on top. Some of them are ** but many of them are not. If what you said hold true all of the time (as you said it did), then can you explain these sales attributed to your ebay id. (edited). All of these packs have a single asterisk (*):

cert#19449158 (Willie Mays #203 on top) sold for $120.27 on 1/3/12
cert#18517511 (Thurman Munson #20 on top) sold for $229.72 on 12/13/11
cert#19414015 (Dave Winfield #61 on top) sold for $185.50 on 1/4/12
cert#18517503 (Robin Yount #223 on top) sold for $500 on 11/17/11
cert#18777946 (Mickey Mantle MVP #194 on top) sold for $147.50 on 8/17/11

There were a bunch of other sales for 1975 and 1977 packs that I didn't check so this is just a sample of those that I found that didn't meet the criteria you said.

In your PM you mentioned that you typically want to address these questions in public so that I why I posted here instead of back through PM.

Just to be transparent, I have a 1975 pack with Brooks Robinson on the top and that card has a single asterisk. The cert# is sandwiched between packs that you sold but I did not buy it from you directly.

Thanks
Jim

Absolutely Jim,
i was one of the top star pack dealers i bought and sold hundreds upon
hundreds over the last 10 years, when i started to open box after box is when i noticed that many of those stars that i had on top were only in the
bottom section! the more i opened the more it happened! that's when i started my research and came to finding out the truth! so i started to email
people and most treated my heads up like i was crazy, so i created proof
and still have it, and that is what i'm fighting, every single person that has
bought and sold star packs in the country went through bogus packs most
graded and that is my message exactly wide spread corruption! and as i provided you with SOLID truthful information is the only way i see to help
rid of the problem but i been facing strong opposition from the so-called
experts that don't want the truth to come out. AND AGAIN every pack i was involved in with tampering i still have
i put a note inside of some so there can be no dispute that what say about the corruption in grading is true.

[japhi]

This provides a good opportunity to update my list of things I know for sure:

Pepis makes fake cello packs with stars on top
Pepis submits packs to PSA and they get slabbed
PSA is not great identifying fake cello's
Pepis sells cello's with stars on top
Pepis "was one of the top star pack dealers...bought and sold hundreds"(NEW)

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Ksquared

Jose
I sent you a PM earlier today about trying to learn more about 75-77 cello packs. The whole situation about fake cello packs out there is of interest to me because I have some cello packs bought over the years. Like most, I try to buy from reputable people/dealers. I'm far from an expert and do put some trust in people I think are honest and have strong reputations. Probably a mistake and this whole situation has caused me to be more skeptical in general with our hobby (not a bad thing - live and learn).

What I learned from your PM is that in 1975 only players with a double asterisk on the back of the card (**) can appear on the front of a cello pack. The same would hold true for cello packs in 1976 and 1977. I looked at all the 1975 packs that Fritsch has for sale and they all have top cards with the **, so that backs up what you said.

I have also read from you where you said you haven't sold any of the back packs you had authenticated by PSA.

I then did some research on packs sold by using VCP previous sales over the years. You have sold several packs over the past few years with stars on top. Some of them are ** but many of them are not. If what you said hold true all of the time (as you said it did), then can you explain these sales attributed to your ebay id. (edited). All of these packs have a single asterisk (*):

cert#19449158 (Willie Mays #203 on top) sold for $120.27 on 1/3/12
cert#18517511 (Thurman Munson #20 on top) sold for $229.72 on 12/13/11
cert#19414015 (Dave Winfield #61 on top) sold for $185.50 on 1/4/12
cert#18517503 (Robin Yount #223 on top) sold for $500 on 11/17/11
cert#18777946 (Mickey Mantle MVP #194 on top) sold for $147.50 on 8/17/11

There were a bunch of other sales for 1975 and 1977 packs that I didn't check so this is just a sample of those that I found that didn't meet the criteria you said.

In your PM you mentioned that you typically want to address these questions in public so that I why I posted here instead of back through PM.

Just to be transparent, I have a 1975 pack with Brooks Robinson on the top and that card has a single asterisk. The cert# is sandwiched between packs that you sold but I did not buy it from you directly.

Thanks
Jim

Good info Jim.

Looking forward to a response from pepis, I'm sure he can clear this up.

[Ksquared]

Jose
I've been thinking about your response to my earlier post. I had a few more questions if you don't mind.

I went through VCP and looked at 75-79 recorded sales in grades PSA 7 - 10. I counted 62 sales from your ebay id since VCP has been recording sales. Only 26 of them meet your criteria for what card should be on top. That means that 36 of them would be tampered using your logic. I know you said you bought a lot of packs over the years, especially star packs but that seems like either bad luck or something else.

I also didn't see any common pack sales that I remember and you mentioned that you had opened multiple boxes so i would figure you would have had some common player sales. Maybe you didn't grade them?

I also saw that you were selling packs with the wrong card on front for multiple years with the last sale being a 79 Ozzie Smith pack in May 2012 and a 78 Thurman Munson in June 2012. There have been multiple threads on fake packs on Net54 from March and May of this year where you mentioned that you spoke to Steve last year and had been working on your FBI information "for a long time".

I'm having a hard time believing when you sold those packs as late as 6/12 that you didn't know they were bad. Did you know at the time you sold those packs that they were bad?

Also, you mentioned you still had all the packs you tampered with yourself. And said you were willing to share information if people asked. Can you provide the cert# for those packs you faked and still have?

Thanks, Jose. I appreciate it.

Jim

[ALR-bishop]

Jose-- looks like you have cultivated a whole new group of friends.

[pepis]

Originally Posted by Ksquared

Jose
I've been thinking about your response to my earlier post. I had a few more questions if you don't mind.

I went through VCP and looked at 75-79 recorded sales in grades PSA 7 - 10. I counted 62 sales from your ebay id since VCP has been recording sales. Only 26 of them meet your criteria for what card should be on top. That means that 36 of them would be tampered using your logic. I know you said you bought a lot of packs over the years, especially star packs but that seems like either bad luck or something else.

I also didn't see any common pack sales that I remember and you mentioned that you had opened multiple boxes so i would figure you would have had some common player sales. Maybe you didn't grade them?

I also saw that you were selling packs with the wrong card on front for multiple years with the last sale being a 79 Ozzie Smith pack in May 2012 and a 78 Thurman Munson in June 2012. There have been multiple threads on fake packs on Net54 from March and May of this year where you mentioned that you spoke to Steve last year and had been working on your FBI information "for a long time".

I'm having a hard time believing when you sold those packs as late as 6/12 that you didn't know they were bad. Did you know at the time you sold those packs that they were bad?

Also, you mentioned you still had all the packs you tampered with yourself. And said you were willing to share information if people asked. Can you provide the cert# for those packs you faked and still have?

Thanks, Jose. I appreciate it.

Jim

You're not asking questions you making statements about digging in my past
prior to my extensive research and findings about this very real problem
i have uncovered in the pack industry and hopefully help stop it or at list
slow it down!,,,when you contacted me on private message i provide you
with the information that opened your eyes, but it seems you're having some
difficulty in believing,, understandable!! so i'll post proof of some of the things
i talked about, but just some since i'm still hoping for my day in court!

when it became clear to me of how large the problem is
i posted some on the CU and got banned right away (see pic)


THEN I TRIED TO EXPOSE IT ON EBAY BY MAKING
SOME DARING LISTINGS, BUT PSA HAD THEIR LAWYERS
CONTACT EBAY TO STOP IT (see pic)


THEN S.HART EMAILED ME, WE EXCHANGED A FEW EMAILS
AND IN THIS ONE I MADE IT CLEAR (see pic)



IN PACKS THAT I HAD MADE, I WROTE A NOTE INSIDE
IN ONE OF THE CARDS, DID IT A FEW TIMES IN DIFFERENT TEARS





HERE WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ONE OK A KIND
OH THE SACRIFICE!!





THIS IS A VERY VERY REAL PROBLEM
THAT NEEDS TO BE TOLD FOR THE SAKE OF THE HOBBY!
MORE TOMORROW