Braun Suspended for Balance of the 2013 Season

[HRBAKER]

It may be more than just a passing coincidence that he decided to step forward and acknowledge his mistakes after the good doctor at the clinic began cooperating with MLB.

I've sat where your sitting being a Cardinals fan. Personally I think what McGwire did to the HR record in 1998 is reprehensible in hindsight.

I'm long passed giving any of them the benefit of the doubt, they've proven me gullible too many times.

Edited to add: It would be truly refreshing if you were right.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

It may be more than just a passing coincidence that he decided to step forward and acknowledge his mistakes after the good doctor at the clinic began cooperating with MLB.

I've sat where your sitting being a Cardinals fan. Personally I think what McGwire did to the HR record in 1998 is reprehensible in hindsight.

I'm long passed giving any of them the benefit of the doubt, they've proven me gullible too many times.

Edited to add: It would be truly refreshing if you were right.

As a diehard Cub fan, I still believe that you can add Sammy Sosa to the list of PED guys. I personally believe Braun got caught the first time and even though the chain of evidence was broken, he still took a prohibited substance. You can accurately believe that whatever they found in the urine test was what he was taking. It's not rocket science to figure that point out. Even worse, he lied about it. I strongly believe that if he were innocent and did not do anything wrong, he would and should fight the charges tooth and nail. Revoking his MVP title should be a no brainier.

[the 'stache]

Ok, everybody regurgitating the "Braun got off on a technicality" meme please read this. Enlighten yourselves.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...nicality-bull/

I think Braun got tired of fighting. MLB accused him once, threatened to suspend him, he fought it tooth and nail, and his defense team proved their client's assertion. The independent arbiter looked at all the scientific evidence, notes from expert testimony...for months, and for the first time ever, overturned MLB's ban. Ok, whew. "Now, I can go on with my life again". Only MLB comes at him again. Threatens to ban him for 100 games, 150 games, or for life...and makes this information public through their little lap dog (ESPN). It became clear that MLB was going to do whatever it took to suspend Braun, even if it meant giving full immunity to the guys that supposedly sold these drugs to all the MLB players. There was no scientific evidence proving guilt, only the word of Anthony Bosch, a man when I see him on television, I feel like I have to take a shower. Oh, and the word of Bosch's employees. Very reliable, I'm sure. Enough to basically force Braun to bow down.

At what point does one just throw up their hands and say "enough is enough"? His reputation was already dragged through the mud. How much more was the guy going to fight?

Don't be so quick to vilify him until the facts come out (if they ever do).

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Ok, everybody regurgitating the "Braun got off on a technicality" meme please read this. Enlighten yourselves.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...nicality-bull/

I think Braun got tired of fighting. MLB accused him once, threatened to suspend him, he fought it tooth and nail, and his defense team proved their client's assertion. The independent arbiter looked at all the scientific evidence, notes from expert testimony...for months, and for the first time ever, overturned MLB's ban. Ok, whew. "Now, I can go on with my life again". Only MLB comes at him again. Threatens to ban him for 100 games, 150 games, or for life...and makes this information public through their little lap dog (ESPN). It became clear that MLB was going to do whatever it took to suspend Braun, even if it meant giving full immunity to the guys that supposedly sold these drugs to all the MLB players. There was no scientific evidence proving guilt, only the word of Anthony Bosch, a man when I see him on television, I feel like I have to take a shower. Oh, and the word of Bosch's employees. Very reliable, I'm sure. Enough to basically force Braun to bow down.

At what point does one just throw up their hands and say "enough is enough"? His reputation was already dragged through the mud. How much more was the guy going to fight?

Don't be so quick to vilify him until the facts come out (if they ever do).

Eh...ummmm...you don't really believe that Braun is innocent do you?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Eh...ummmm...you don't really believe that Braun is innocent do you?

No, I definitely think he took a banned substance. I don't think he took a performance enhancing drug. Does that make my stance a little clearer, I hope?

As I said, he did something against the rules, and should absolutely be suspended. The problem I have is that Major League Baseball, which has played fast and loose with the "we're going to ban Braun, A Rod and 20 other players the week after the All Star Game" talk, is curiously hush hush with the details of what exactly he took. I guess in their eyes it's ok to suspend a player no matter what they had to do to get it, but ask for any of the facts germane to the suspension, and "well, that's strictly confidential". It stinks.

If MLB is so interested in cleaning up the sport, why not tell the fans what each suspended individual was guilty of taking? Because I look at Ryan Braun, and I'm not seeing Mark McGwire circa 1998, or Barry Bonds circa 2001. Braun is pretty much the same guy that came into the big leagues in 2007. The same guy that was a star at the University of Miami, and in high school in California. This isn't Melky Cabrera, who went from being a career .275 hitter to a .340 hitting MVP candidate. Ryan Braun was a top 100 amateur prospect per Baseball America. He was First Team All-American in college. So, I guess he started using PEDs in high school?

Or, maybe he didn't take PEDs. Maybe he took something like I'd mentioned earlier, to try and heal an injury that had plagued him all season. Isn't that at least possible?

[alanu]

"If MLB is so interested in cleaning up the sport, why not tell the fans what each suspended individual was guilty of taking?"



I think the reason for not disclosing the specific substance is that the bargaining agreement forbids it, so it's really the players not the league responsible for the non-disclosure of the specific substance.

The players could come out and say what they were suspended for, but they never do.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by alanu

"If MLB is so interested in cleaning up the sport, why not tell the fans what each suspended individual was guilty of taking?"



I think the reason for not disclosing the specific substance is that the bargaining agreement forbids it, so it's really the players not the league responsible for the non-disclosure of the specific substance.

The players could come out and say what they were suspended for, but they never do.

Well, the bargaining agreement also provides for strict confidentiality, does it not? And we've seen how that's gone. MLB has tried their case in the media, and the players have basically been stifled.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Ok, everybody regurgitating the "Braun got off on a technicality" meme please read this. Enlighten yourselves.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...nicality-bull/

I think Braun got tired of fighting. MLB accused him once, threatened to suspend him, he fought it tooth and nail, and his defense team proved their client's assertion. The independent arbiter looked at all the scientific evidence, notes from expert testimony...for months, and for the first time ever, overturned MLB's ban. Ok, whew. "Now, I can go on with my life again". Only MLB comes at him again. Threatens to ban him for 100 games, 150 games, or for life...and makes this information public through their little lap dog (ESPN). It became clear that MLB was going to do whatever it took to suspend Braun, even if it meant giving full immunity to the guys that supposedly sold these drugs to all the MLB players. There was no scientific evidence proving guilt, only the word of Anthony Bosch, a man when I see him on television, I feel like I have to take a shower. Oh, and the word of Bosch's employees. Very reliable, I'm sure. Enough to basically force Braun to bow down.

At what point does one just throw up their hands and say "enough is enough"? His reputation was already dragged through the mud. How much more was the guy going to fight?

Don't be so quick to vilify him until the facts come out (if they ever do).

Maybe they should have DNA tested the sample as additional requirements to prove the sample came from Braun. Human body fluids should have some cells proving who the sample came from. LOL

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Maybe they should have DNA tested the sample as additional requirements to prove the sample came from Braun. Human body fluids should have some cells proving who the sample came from. LOL

Braun actually offered to provide a DNA sample to compare against the sample. MLB declined.

[stewbacca]

Your defense for Braun really resembles Lance Armstrongs defense. Tired of fighting the rumors, blame and brand Floyd Landis as well as the others as liars and cheats themselves(so they should have no credibility). I would love for him to be clean both for himself and for me as a brewers fan and baseball fan, but the company you keep really tells the story. I appreciate that you are defending him, but if baseball really had nothing on him, do you really think they would suspend him? I think they have many more fact than you and I could imagine. Those were presented to him and his counsel and he got off with only a 65 game suspension. I think he is lucky and he knows it. What if MLB went public with everything they had on him? The lurid facts could ruin him and his career but they give him a way out. Armstrong had so many people fooled(not me), but the extent of his cheating blew my mind. And the drugs didn't make Armstrong bigger, it made him recover faster among other things.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by stewbacca

What if MLB went public with everything they had on him? The lurid facts could ruin him and his career but they give him a way out.

I'm guessing the types of reporters I refer to in my earlier post will be offering plenty of $$$$ to see that any privileged information MLB has will eventfully "leak" out.

[oldjudge]

The best thing that could happen to the Yankees is for ARod to be banned for life, and by extension his bloated contract cancelled. Better still would be if Teixeira and Sabathia were banned for life. Get rid of those has beens and spend the money on some talent.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by stewbacca

Your defense for Braun really resembles Lance Armstrongs defense. Tired of fighting the rumors, blame and brand Floyd Landis as well as the others as liars and cheats themselves(so they should have no credibility). I would love for him to be clean both for himself and for me as a brewers fan and baseball fan, but the company you keep really tells the story. I appreciate that you are defending him, but if baseball really had nothing on him, do you really think they would suspend him? I think they have many more fact than you and I could imagine. Those were presented to him and his counsel and he got off with only a 65 game suspension. I think he is lucky and he knows it. What if MLB went public with everything they had on him? The lurid facts could ruin him and his career but they give him a way out. Armstrong had so many people fooled(not me), but the extent of his cheating blew my mind. And the drugs didn't make Armstrong bigger, it made him recover faster among other things.

If MLB had all of this damning evidence, why the need to give Anthony Bosch and his former employees complete immunity?

Another thing. Lance Armstrong never had a suspension publicly overturned. Braun did. Instead of accepting the results of binding arbitration, MLB threw a hissy fit with their statement they "vehemently disagreed" with the decision. Then they fired the guy that cleared him. Then they decided to go after him again.

Doesn't MLB appear at least slightly overzealous to you? Does it not bother you at all that they gave complete immunity to the guys that were supposedly supplying these Major Leaguers with the drugs?

Where was MLB's "we must clean up the game" outcry while mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa were both smashing Roger Maris's single season home run record? MLB had just come off a strike, yet when these two blow up dolls started mashing homers at a rate previously unseen in the nearly 130 years of baseball history, they blindly turned an eye. "Chicks dig the long ball!". When Barry Bonds, a man that had never hit 50 home runs in a season, suddenly hits 73 at the age of 36, where was their righteous indignation then?

I don't think MLB has this damning evidence you are referring to. I think it's circumstantial. A couple pieces of paper with a bunch of names written in pencil, some dollar figures next to them, and a whole bunch of corroborating "sworn statements" by individuals that would make my skin crawl.

MLB made it clear that they were going to have their way, and would do whatever necessary to achieve their objective. Now, I'm all for cleaning up the sport, but the depths they've sunk to in order to realize their suspensions is very troubling to me. They talk about the "integrity of the game" out of one corner of their mouth, then give life to their draconian tactics out of the other.

[David R]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

If MLB had all of this damning evidence, why the need to give Anthony Bosch and his former employees complete immunity?

Another thing. Lance Armstrong never had a suspension publicly overturned. Braun did. Instead of accepting the results of binding arbitration, MLB threw a hissy fit with their statement they "vehemently disagreed" with the decision. Then they fired the guy that cleared him. Then they decided to go after him again.

Doesn't MLB appear at least slightly overzealous to you? Does it not bother you at all that they gave complete immunity to the guys that were supposedly supplying these Major Leaguers with the drugs?

Where was MLB's "we must clean up the game" outcry while mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa were both smashing Roger Maris's single season home run record? MLB had just come off a strike, yet when these two blow up dolls started mashing homers at a rate previously unseen in the nearly 130 years of baseball history, they blindly turned an eye. "Chicks dig the long ball!". When Barry Bonds, a man that had never hit 50 home runs in a season, suddenly hits 73 at the age of 36, where was their righteous indignation then?

I don't think MLB has this damning evidence you are referring to. I think it's circumstantial. A couple pieces of paper with a bunch of names written in pencil, some dollar figures next to them, and a whole bunch of corroborating "sworn statements" by individuals that would make my skin crawl.

MLB made it clear that they were going to have their way, and would do whatever necessary to achieve their objective. Now, I'm all for cleaning up the sport, but the depths they've sunk to in order to realize their suspensions is very troubling to me. They talk about the "integrity of the game" out of one corner of their mouth, then give life to their draconian tactics out of the other.

I think the suggestion that Braun is somehow an innocent victim of a MLB witch hunt and that he was taking something that violated the rules but not a "performance-enhancing drug" is just pure denial.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by David R

I think the suggestion that Braun is somehow an innocent victim of a MLB witch hunt and that he was taking something that violated the rules but not a "performance-enhancing drug" is just pure denial.

David, I never said "innocent". Again, I do think he used something. But MLB is clearly overzealous in their pursuit of Braun. How many times do you see somebody accused of a crime, vindicated, and then tried for the same thing again, by the same people? It doesn't happen in a criminal court system because jeopardy attaches. Now obviously, this is not a court system, but arbitration. But MLB didn't like the verdict they got when Braun appealed, so they decided to basically ignore it, and go after him again.

Remember when this story first broke? The initial article by ESPN was "Ryan Braun to be suspended for PED use". Shortly thereafter, the story changed, that "Braun will be suspended for a banned substance, not a PED". Then the stories started coming out that Braun was taking a medication for herpes. STD medication and PEDs are not even remotely the same thing.

Where is the truth in this? All we know for sure is that Braun was to be suspended for a banned substance, that his testosterone levels were nearly three times higher than any professional athlete had ever tested before, and that he won his appeal by challenging the procedure in which his sample was handled. That doesn't mean his defense team couldn't have gone after the science. They pursued the line of defense that would most likely result in an overturn. It was hardly the only avenue available to them.

Now we know for a fact that Braun will be suspended for the remainder of the 2013 season. That's about all we really know. We don't know definitively what banned substance he took. We don't know what he was presented with by MLB.

I just hope that these "leaks" which served MLB so effectively will start disclosing the facts of the case. Let's see both sides.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Ok, everybody regurgitating the "Braun got off on a technicality" meme please read this. Enlighten yourselves.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...nicality-bull/

I think Braun got tired of fighting. MLB accused him once, threatened to suspend him, he fought it tooth and nail, and his defense team proved their client's assertion. The independent arbiter looked at all the scientific evidence, notes from expert testimony...for months, and for the first time ever, overturned MLB's ban. Ok, whew. "Now, I can go on with my life again". Only MLB comes at him again. Threatens to ban him for 100 games, 150 games, or for life...and makes this information public through their little lap dog (ESPN). It became clear that MLB was going to do whatever it took to suspend Braun, even if it meant giving full immunity to the guys that supposedly sold these drugs to all the MLB players. There was no scientific evidence proving guilt, only the word of Anthony Bosch, a man when I see him on television, I feel like I have to take a shower. Oh, and the word of Bosch's employees. Very reliable, I'm sure. Enough to basically force Braun to bow down.

At what point does one just throw up their hands and say "enough is enough"? His reputation was already dragged through the mud. How much more was the guy going to fight?

Don't be so quick to vilify him until the facts come out (if they ever do).

You are joking right?
Bill, Braun admitted it! Didn't you read his statement....the MLBPA was PROUD that he admitted it....

I think you should stop posting in this thread.....

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

[/b]

You are joking right?
Bill, Braun admitted it! Didn't you read his statement....the MLBPA was PROUD that he admitted it....

I think you should stop posting in this thread.....

Of course I read his statement. Show me where he has ever admitted specifically to using PEDs.

"As I have acknowledged in the past, I am not perfect," Braun said in a statement. "I realize now that I have made some mistakes. I am willing to accept the consequences of those actions. This situation has taken a toll on me and my entire family, and it has been a distraction to my teammates and the Brewers organization. I am very grateful for the support I have received from players, ownership and the fans in Milwaukee and around the country.

I do not see the words "I used PED" anywhere in that statement.

CBS has the headline: "Ryan Braun admits PED use, suspended for rest of 2013"

Then they start the article off with "Braun admitted using performance-enhancing drugs, though he did not give any specifics."

The headline and that statement contradict each other. A player coming out and saying "I used steroids" is an admission of using steroids. A player saying "I made some mistakes" is a blanket statement that leaves a lot open to interpretation. Sports sites like ESPN, Yahoo and CBS can report it how they want. And maybe they're right. Maybe it's an 80 or 90% chance he used performance enhancers. But until the language is undeniable, I will still allow for the slim possibility that Braun used something else.

Who am I supposed to believe? ESPN? Major League Baseball, who's in bed with these lowlifes at Biogenesis? If a dog lies down with fleas, they're going to get bitten. So, show me the proof, otherwise there's always going to be doubt, and justifiably so.

You guys can call me a homer, or say that I'm wearing rose-colored glasses all you want. I've done a lot of research on the science involved in drug testing. Braun got off on a technicality? Or, maybe they screwed up his sample. Is it not possible?

Everybody was so sure Diane Modhal was cheating, too. The track and field star was found to have abnormal levels of testosterone in her system, and they basically ran over her the same way MLB has run over Braun. It was later proven that the laboratory mishandled her sample. She was exonerated. So maybe the collector in Braun's case didn't purposely screw with his sample. The opportunity was there. He's a Cubs fan, and if you guys are going to tell me that nobody would do something like that based on an allegiance to a team, I'd show you a tape of the Giants fan that got beaten by Dodgers fans because he was wearing his team's colors at Dodger Stadium. Even if he didn't mess with the sample, he did not do his job properly. Period. When procedures are not followed, the sample is considered tainted. And when you exclude that sample, you look at all the other samples Braun has given, all of which have been clean.

If baseball's case against Braun were in a criminal court, it would get laughed out of the courtroom. No physical or scientific proof whatsoever. Their entire case basically resides in the testimony of a bunch of lowlifes that baseball would have gone after were it not for their agreeing to testify against the MLB players under investigation.

[iwantitiwinit]

If not guilty then why accept the ban. No way I ever admit to something I didnt do. His motivation for accepting a ban is once again predicated on money. He will be making more next year than this year so his reduction in take home would be greater next year under a ban. I would bet that is his sole motivation not the fact that his team is out of it this year. Why would we think its anything different.

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Of course I read his statement. Show me where he has ever admitted specifically to using PEDs.



I do not see the words "I used PED" anywhere in that statement.

CBS has the headline: "Ryan Braun admits PED use, suspended for rest of 2013"

Then they start the article off with "Braun admitted using performance-enhancing drugs, though he did not give any specifics."

The headline and that statement contradict each other. A player coming out and saying "I used steroids" is an admission of using steroids. A player saying "I made some mistakes" is a blanket statement that leaves a lot open to interpretation. Sports sites like ESPN, Yahoo and CBS can report it how they want. And maybe they're right. Maybe it's an 80 or 90% chance he used performance enhancers. But until the language is undeniable, I will still allow for the slim possibility that Braun used something else.

Who am I supposed to believe? ESPN? Major League Baseball, who's in bed with these lowlifes at Biogenesis? If a dog lies down with fleas, they're going to get bitten. So, show me the proof, otherwise there's always going to be doubt, and justifiably so.

You guys can call me a homer, or say that I'm wearing rose-colored glasses all you want. I've done a lot of research on the science involved in drug testing. Braun got off on a technicality? Or, maybe they screwed up his sample. Is it not possible?

Everybody was so sure Diane Modhal was cheating, too. The track and field star was found to have abnormal levels of testosterone in her system, and they basically ran over her the same way MLB has run over Braun. It was later proven that the laboratory mishandled her sample. She was exonerated. So maybe the collector in Braun's case didn't purposely screw with his sample. The opportunity was there. He's a Cubs fan, and if you guys are going to tell me that nobody would do something like that based on an allegiance to a team, I'd show you a tape of the Giants fan that got beaten by Dodgers fans because he was wearing his team's colors at Dodger Stadium. Even if he didn't mess with the sample, he did not do his job properly. Period. When procedures are not followed, the sample is considered tainted. And when you exclude that sample, you look at all the other samples Braun has given, all of which have been clean.

If baseball's case against Braun were in a criminal court, it would get laughed out of the courtroom. No physical or scientific proof whatsoever. Their entire case basically resides in the testimony of a bunch of lowlifes that baseball would have gone after were it not for their agreeing to testify against the MLB players under investigation.

[ScottFandango]

Quote:
"As I have acknowledged in the past, I am not perfect," Braun said in a statement. "I realize now that I have made some mistakes. I am willing to accept the consequences of those actions. This situation has taken a toll on me and my entire family, and it has been a distraction to my teammates and the Brewers organization. I am very grateful for the support I have received from players, ownership and the fans in Milwaukee and around the country.

He realized it NOW because he got caught...If MLB never bought all the evidence, he would NOT HAVE REALIZED IT....this means he believed his own lies.its amazing how money can "self brainwash" someone....


The "support he RECEIVED (past tense)" from people,he LIED TO on numerous occasions...seeing his winter 2012 interview makes me Vomit...I'll give him this:

He is an AMAZING LIER

[vintagetoppsguy]

Some people choose to see the world through rose colored glasses...

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Some people choose to see the world through rose colored glasses...

Deny deny deny. If Braun did nothing then he should fight it. I'm sure if ESPN was making false allegations then Braun should sue them. Just a thought.

[conor912]

I think they should make PEDs mandatory for every player. That will solve this whole "fairness" debate once and for all.

[autograf]

I agree with the sentiment that I would be surprised if ANYONE was not cheating in MLB. The whole thing is a sham unfortunately. There are chemists out there right now mixing stuff that likely is undetectable in the range of testing that MLB employs and there are players pulling their pants down for a shot. I agree we need to just make it wide open or ban after first instance. It has become an embarrassment...........

[markf31]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I do not see the words "I used PED" anywhere in that statement.

I also do not see the words "I did not use PEDs" or "I used a banned substance that was not a PED" or anything along those lines anywhere in that statement either, which you would think if he was trying to semi-exonerate(?) himself he would have mentioned.

Sometimes what someone doesn't say, is just as damning as something they do say.

It's also interesting to note that when the suspension was overturned last year, he couldn't get in front of a camera quick enough to pronounce and glorify his innocence and vindication. Yet this time around it comes out as a simple statement provided to the media, no press conference, no cameras.

[nolemmings]

on Oct. 19, 2011, he said he told the players association: "I promise you on anything that's ever meant anything to me in my life, the morals, the virtues, the values by which I've lived in my 28 years on this planet, I did not do this."

I wish that MLB required Braun to allocute if he wanted to avoid a hearing and potential stiffer suspension. Maybe our criminal defense attorneys can chime in here--perhaps an allocution in this setting is off-limits because it could be used against him in future criminal proceedings. That would also explain why Braun dances around any specifics.

[steve B]

I guess this won't make anyone happy, but here's my take on things.

Baseball tests for a lot of stuff. There's a decent list on wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_L...ll_drug_policy

Some of what they test for is not performance enhancing. Some certainly is, some ....Some I have no idea what the heck it is. I can't see some of the stimulants enhancing erformance - Meth? Maybe a time or two, but not long term.

I do know that a poppy seed bagel can lead to a positive test for opiates, which are banned. Ephedrine in cold medecine is also banned.

The comment that they can't say what was detected because of both the CBA and HIPAA is correct. So unless Braun gets into details we'll never know.

I'd like to think that if it was something stupid like cold medecine or poppy seeds they'd give him a break. (There's precedent, the snowboard kid who tested positive for pot at the olympics claimed secondary contact and got a pass because the levels made sense.)

Him not releasing details makes it look worse.

Some of the results CAN be altered if the sample is mishandled. Without knowing the substance, we can't know if the earlier positive was one that could be affected, or if it was purely a proceedural problem.

Lance DID have a positive test publicly overturned, a 1999 positive for corticosteroid that he blamed on saddle sore ointment.

And like Braun, he passed a number of tests. A few failures were hidden through bribery be Nike. (Surprised nobody has been banned or arrested for that)

A lot of commonly used medications or products are on the WADA list. There are a number of cases outlined on their site when discussing suspensions and fairness. http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Wo..._Article10.pdf

One is a tennis player banned for a year for a hair restoration product he'd used for years. He just never checked the list when it got added.

Some substances are ok with a medical waiver. Concerta is becoming more common in the NFL.

I'm fairly sure that most of us, especially those if us who are older would not pass a drug test used for international competition. Especially anyone using vitamin supplements.

Maybe the ban is fair, maybe not. I think that with testing being somewhat new in MLB there's a learning curve about what ordinary stuff will cause a positive test. And that using clinics like biogenesis is very risky.

Steve B

Steve B

[the 'stache]

I can't disagree with a single thing you've said, Mark. And I think what everybody else has said is also spot on. To be honest, I'm just exhausted by this whole thing. Maybe I'm not thinking clearly. I know he did something wrong. I want to know specifically what that was. No more speculation, no more "well, he admitted to it but wasn't specific". Enough! A criminal has to allocute before accepting a plea bargain. The fans that have been through the ringer with this whole thing deserve the truth.

I guess I just want him to stop screwing around, and tell us what really happened. No more filtering your words through some lawyer's office at $500 an hour. Tell us what you took. Tell us why you did it. Be honest, for God's sake. My opinion of his has been damaged, but if I'm ever going to forgive the guy, he needs to come clean.

Originally Posted by markf31

I also do not see the words "I did not use PEDs" or "I used a banned substance that was not a PED" or anything along those lines anywhere in that statement either, which you would think if he was trying to semi-exonerate(?) himself he would have mentioned.

Sometimes what someone doesn't say, is just as damning as something they do say.

It's also interesting to note that when the suspension was overturned last year, he couldn't get in front of a camera quick enough to pronounce and glorify his innocence and vindication. Yet this time around it comes out as a simple statement provided to the media, no press conference, no cameras.

[howard38]

/

[brookdodger55]

As a ESPN Analyst Curt Shilling said yesterday, Take all of his stats especially on his Baseball Card and in the Official record and make them all O's. Maybe when he comes back with Zero stat's his new clean #'s will speak for themselves.
Mike

[Wite3]

Some things to consider...

I feel that much of the evidence is circumstantial...names on paper, invoices and receipts, logs, etc. They are asking for total immunity because they are possibly breaking several laws. Most notably, any Hippa laws that apply. If they are under the care of a doctor and proscribed a legal drug (that might be a banned substance) then those laws apply.

Some of the drugs might have been given illegally (without a doctor or r/x). Again, against the law and asking for immunity.

Biogenesis sounds more like a compounding pharmacy to me where they mixed drugs, compounds, and ??? to make new things. Legal? No one is sure...therefore they want immunity.

Greed made the people at Biogenesis do this, nothing more. They craved money first...now fame...I would not be surprised when the books come and movie rights are sold.

As to Braun...who cares whether it was performance enhancing or not. He used something illegal and lied about it. Is this the example you want for your children? It is okay to use or do something illegal as long as you do not get caught...but when you do, make sure to lie about it first and then faced with overwhelming evidence and pressure, beg for forgiveness.

They should void his contract (which they can probably legally do...because he lied, not because he used a banned substance) and go after portions of the previous contract when he was using said substance.

Just my opinions.

Joshua

[drmondobueno]

Braun's statement says loads. He admitted to "making mistakes"..... B S, he admitted nothing. He whines about his family. Boo hoo, poor him. His 'statement' was manufactured by the lawyers and the baseball machine that protects money and allows liars and cheaters to hide behind the union and process.

Anyone that does not recognize this needs to take off their rose colored glasses. I am not saying he does not have talent, he just cheats and uses the law to steal $100 million bucks.

Who is next? Hopefully 20 or 300 guys. Get it done.

Just my pissed off opinion.

Keith Temple

P S. and NO, I do not feel better now.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

It may be more than just a passing coincidence that he decided to step forward and acknowledge his mistakes after the good doctor at the clinic began cooperating with MLB.

I've sat where your sitting being a Cardinals fan. Personally I think what McGwire did to the HR record in 1998 is reprehensible in hindsight.

I'm long passed giving any of them the benefit of the doubt, they've proven me gullible too many times.

While I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, respectfully, I have to say these situations are a little different, Jeff. McGwire was a pretty big guy as a rookie with the A's, but by the time he was hitting his 70 home runs with the Cardinals, he was just huge. In 1987 he was 6'5" 213 lbs. In 1998, he was listed as 6'5" 250 pounds. In 2007, Ryan Braun was 6'1" 202 lbs. In 2012, he was 6'1" 210 pounds. Braun added some muscle, but his body mass didn't bloat up like McGwires. Big Mac added 37 pounds. Also, Ryan Braun, if you look at his numbers, has hit pretty much the same number of home runs every year, save for 2010 when he hurt his hand. As a rookie, he hit 34 home runs in 492 at bats (once every 14.47 at bats). In 2012, he hit 41 home runs in 598 at bats (once every 14.58 at bats). He's been consistent across the board. There haven't been any substantial jumps in his performance that one would associate with taking performance enhancing drugs.

I agree with you that cheating in any form is reprehensible, and I know I'm probably coming off as a homer by not jumping on the "let's hang Ryan Braun as a scum bag" bandwagon. But we haven't heard the real facts of what happened with Braun. His reputation was already shot because of the first suspension + overturn (he clearly got off on a technicality, right? Nevermind that science has shown how improper storage of a specimen can skew results. See Diane Modhal). It's clear that MLB had it out for him (they were willing to give a complete pass to the dirt bags who were dealing drugs in order to "get their guys"), and they were going to suspend him no matter what he did. Isn't it at least possible that Braun said to himself "since I'm suspended no matter what I do, why not take a lesser suspension now. My thumb is still messed up, so I can get healthy. The team is 18 games out of first place, Corey Hart is out for the season, as is Aramis Ramirez pretty much. We can't compete with our three best power hitters out. Better I serve now that the season is lost than fight this, and possibly have to face suspension next year".

We don't know what he took. We don't know if this all relates back to the 2011 suspension, or if this is something new. But it's clear that MLB was on a witch hunt of sorts. No confidentiality whatsoever. They aired their dirty laundry in public for all to see. Hell, when his suspension was overturned by Shyam Das, a well respected arbiter (and somebody who looked at all the evidence for three months beforre making his ruling), MLB fired him. What chance did Ryan Braun have? At what point does a player just throw up his hands after being beaten into submission for nearly two years? I'm not saying he's an angel at all. He did something wrong. But it really appears to me that we're not seeing the whole picture. If he got off on a technicality, why did it take Das so long to reach his decision? One would think that would be an open and shut case, right? Or was there a lot more compelling evidence that we haven't seen? Braun's Brewer teammates have come forward to say "if the public knew the truth, we'd think differently". Aaron Rodgers of the Packers said he'd bet his 2013 salary that he was innocent. Are all these guys dead from the neck up? Or is there something we've not yet seen?

It's possible I'm grasping at straws, and that Ryan has played everybody for a fool for a very long time. But there's something inside me that says we're only getting one half of the story. Ryan hasn't spoken at length before, as he was bound by the confidentiality clause of the arbitration process. Maybe now he can do so.

I don't know, I'm just sick of this whole thing. It's ruined my enjoyment of this season. It's been a dark cloud circling over 2013's head.