Braun Suspended for Balance of the 2013 Season

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by stewbacca

Your defense for Braun really resembles Lance Armstrongs defense. Tired of fighting the rumors, blame and brand Floyd Landis as well as the others as liars and cheats themselves(so they should have no credibility). I would love for him to be clean both for himself and for me as a brewers fan and baseball fan, but the company you keep really tells the story. I appreciate that you are defending him, but if baseball really had nothing on him, do you really think they would suspend him? I think they have many more fact than you and I could imagine. Those were presented to him and his counsel and he got off with only a 65 game suspension. I think he is lucky and he knows it. What if MLB went public with everything they had on him? The lurid facts could ruin him and his career but they give him a way out. Armstrong had so many people fooled(not me), but the extent of his cheating blew my mind. And the drugs didn't make Armstrong bigger, it made him recover faster among other things.

If MLB had all of this damning evidence, why the need to give Anthony Bosch and his former employees complete immunity?

Another thing. Lance Armstrong never had a suspension publicly overturned. Braun did. Instead of accepting the results of binding arbitration, MLB threw a hissy fit with their statement they "vehemently disagreed" with the decision. Then they fired the guy that cleared him. Then they decided to go after him again.

Doesn't MLB appear at least slightly overzealous to you? Does it not bother you at all that they gave complete immunity to the guys that were supposedly supplying these Major Leaguers with the drugs?

Where was MLB's "we must clean up the game" outcry while mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa were both smashing Roger Maris's single season home run record? MLB had just come off a strike, yet when these two blow up dolls started mashing homers at a rate previously unseen in the nearly 130 years of baseball history, they blindly turned an eye. "Chicks dig the long ball!". When Barry Bonds, a man that had never hit 50 home runs in a season, suddenly hits 73 at the age of 36, where was their righteous indignation then?

I don't think MLB has this damning evidence you are referring to. I think it's circumstantial. A couple pieces of paper with a bunch of names written in pencil, some dollar figures next to them, and a whole bunch of corroborating "sworn statements" by individuals that would make my skin crawl.

MLB made it clear that they were going to have their way, and would do whatever necessary to achieve their objective. Now, I'm all for cleaning up the sport, but the depths they've sunk to in order to realize their suspensions is very troubling to me. They talk about the "integrity of the game" out of one corner of their mouth, then give life to their draconian tactics out of the other.

[David R]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

If MLB had all of this damning evidence, why the need to give Anthony Bosch and his former employees complete immunity?

Another thing. Lance Armstrong never had a suspension publicly overturned. Braun did. Instead of accepting the results of binding arbitration, MLB threw a hissy fit with their statement they "vehemently disagreed" with the decision. Then they fired the guy that cleared him. Then they decided to go after him again.

Doesn't MLB appear at least slightly overzealous to you? Does it not bother you at all that they gave complete immunity to the guys that were supposedly supplying these Major Leaguers with the drugs?

Where was MLB's "we must clean up the game" outcry while mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa were both smashing Roger Maris's single season home run record? MLB had just come off a strike, yet when these two blow up dolls started mashing homers at a rate previously unseen in the nearly 130 years of baseball history, they blindly turned an eye. "Chicks dig the long ball!". When Barry Bonds, a man that had never hit 50 home runs in a season, suddenly hits 73 at the age of 36, where was their righteous indignation then?

I don't think MLB has this damning evidence you are referring to. I think it's circumstantial. A couple pieces of paper with a bunch of names written in pencil, some dollar figures next to them, and a whole bunch of corroborating "sworn statements" by individuals that would make my skin crawl.

MLB made it clear that they were going to have their way, and would do whatever necessary to achieve their objective. Now, I'm all for cleaning up the sport, but the depths they've sunk to in order to realize their suspensions is very troubling to me. They talk about the "integrity of the game" out of one corner of their mouth, then give life to their draconian tactics out of the other.

I think the suggestion that Braun is somehow an innocent victim of a MLB witch hunt and that he was taking something that violated the rules but not a "performance-enhancing drug" is just pure denial.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by David R

I think the suggestion that Braun is somehow an innocent victim of a MLB witch hunt and that he was taking something that violated the rules but not a "performance-enhancing drug" is just pure denial.

David, I never said "innocent". Again, I do think he used something. But MLB is clearly overzealous in their pursuit of Braun. How many times do you see somebody accused of a crime, vindicated, and then tried for the same thing again, by the same people? It doesn't happen in a criminal court system because jeopardy attaches. Now obviously, this is not a court system, but arbitration. But MLB didn't like the verdict they got when Braun appealed, so they decided to basically ignore it, and go after him again.

Remember when this story first broke? The initial article by ESPN was "Ryan Braun to be suspended for PED use". Shortly thereafter, the story changed, that "Braun will be suspended for a banned substance, not a PED". Then the stories started coming out that Braun was taking a medication for herpes. STD medication and PEDs are not even remotely the same thing.

Where is the truth in this? All we know for sure is that Braun was to be suspended for a banned substance, that his testosterone levels were nearly three times higher than any professional athlete had ever tested before, and that he won his appeal by challenging the procedure in which his sample was handled. That doesn't mean his defense team couldn't have gone after the science. They pursued the line of defense that would most likely result in an overturn. It was hardly the only avenue available to them.

Now we know for a fact that Braun will be suspended for the remainder of the 2013 season. That's about all we really know. We don't know definitively what banned substance he took. We don't know what he was presented with by MLB.

I just hope that these "leaks" which served MLB so effectively will start disclosing the facts of the case. Let's see both sides.

[David R]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

David, I never said "innocent". Again, I do think he used something. But MLB is clearly overzealous in their pursuit of Braun. How many times do you see somebody accused of a crime, vindicated, and then tried for the same thing again, by the same people? It doesn't happen in a criminal court system because jeopardy attaches. Now obviously, this is not a court system, but arbitration. But MLB didn't like the verdict they got when Braun appealed, so they decided to basically ignore it, and go after him again.

Remember when this story first broke? The initial article by ESPN was "Ryan Braun to be suspended for PED use". Shortly thereafter, the story changed, that "Braun will be banned for a banned substance, not a PED". Then the stories started coming out that Braun was taking a medication for herpes. STD medication and PEDs are not even remotely the same thing.

Where is the truth in this? All we know for sure is that Braun was to be suspended for a banned substance, that his testosterone levels were nearly three times higher than any professional athlete had ever tested before, and that he won his appeal by challenging the procedure in which his sample was handled. That doesn't mean his defense team couldn't have gone after the science. They pursued the line of defense that would most likely result in an overturn. It was hardly the only avenue available to them.

Now we know for a fact that Braun will be suspended for the remainder of the 2013 season. That's about all we really know. We don't know definitively what banned substance he took. We don't know what he was presented with by MLB.

I just hope that these "leaks" which served MLB so effectively will start disclosing the facts of the case. Let's see both sides.

I would love to see all the facts but Braun wouldn't want that. What I think would be refreshing is if Braun came clean and told the truth instead of insulting our intelligence by denying he ever used PEDs. The sad thing is he has profited handsomely from his artificially pumped up performance even with the suspension.

[midwaylandscaping]

I may be overboard on the cynical here, but I doubt anyone is truly clean. The horses are too far out of the barn so to speak.
I'm also disappointed in the lack of top level leadership in all 4 major sports. Just recently we've been subjected to(and in some cases continue to be) the worst Commissioners ever in the Big 4 sports. Goodell is a joke. Bettman is even worse. Stern and the NBA were exposed during the ref scandal, that seems to be the most rigged pro sport out there. Bud Selig is by far the most incompetent baseball commissioner of my my lifetime, if not all time in the sport. His leadership enabled and cultivated the "PED ERA". Everybody was lovey dovey with McGwire and Sosa. Who was the leader. Selig. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil Bud. Now suddenly, that leader is leading the clean up. That's a culture of corruption at the highest level.
I won't pile on Braun. I was told once "don't pitchfork the dead". Which is what Braun's career is, dead. Regardless of whether or not he plays again, it's dead.
He has a major hand in that obviously. But so does Bud. And all of baseball. To a certain degree we all do. But Bud needs to be removed, soon. It's long overdue, no more excuses.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by David R

I would love to see all the facts but Braun wouldn't want that. What I think would be refreshing is if Braun came clean and told the truth instead of insulting our intelligence by denying he ever used PEDs. The sad thing is he has profited handsomely from his artificially pumped up performance even with the suspension.

Again, you're making an assumption that he used PEDs, that his numbers were the result of using drugs. He was one of the best high school baseball players in America, and All American at Miami, and a star in the minors. So, when did he start using?

I posted this on another forum. Miguel Cabrera is widely considered the best hitter in baseball. But compare his numbers to those of Ryan Brauns. Keep in mind Cabrera is in his 11th season, and Braun his 7th:

Cabrera per 162 games: 104 runs, 195 hits, 41 doubles, 1 triple, 35 HR, 123 RBI, 4 SB, .321 AVG/.398 OBP/.568 SLG/.966 OPS
Braun per 162 games: 111 runs, 198 hits, 41 doubles, 5 triples, 36 HR, 117 RBI, 22 SB, .312 AVG/.374 OBP/.564 SLG/.938 OPS

Does Ryan Braun look like a guy to you that needs steroids? Have you ever watched him hit? He's got one of the most beautiful swings I've ever seen. He generates incredible bat speed with pretty much perfect swing mechanics. Great twitch. A lot of power from his legs. Steroids don't make somebody a lifetime .312 hitter.

Braun set a MLB record for highest rookie slugging pct. Was he using steroids in 2007? How did he pass all those tests in the minors, and his first five seasons then? Either baseball's testing is not all it's cracked up to be, or it was the first time Braun used a banned substance, and he got caught. After he won his appeal, don't you think that Braun was being tested as much as MLB could get away with it? With all that pressure, with all that additional testing, with fans from other cities booing him, he had an even better year than he did when he won the MVP.

Hmm.

[glchen]

Bill, I realize you're a Brewer fan, but I think you gotta realize sooner or later that Braun is guilty of PEDs, and the performance kind, not some kind of technicality. His body build is the same as A-Rod, and A-Rod has admitted to using in the past. Similarly A-Rod was one of the best players in high school, etc. The thing is, beautiful stroke, past history means nothing. There are a tons of misses in baseball because just because you could hit in high school or minor league doesn't mean anything in the majors. Steroids can make someone a lifetime .312 hitter, that's why it's called "performance-enhancing." This guy is a joke. I lump him and A-Rod in the same bucket.

[Exhibitman]

Best reaction ever to Braun's suspension, Miami Marlins' Logan Morrison:

"You know we're clean. We haven't scored a run in 37 innings."

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

David, I never said "innocent". Again, I do think he used something. But MLB is clearly overzealous in their pursuit of Braun. How many times do you see somebody accused of a crime, vindicated, and then tried for the same thing again, by the same people? It doesn't happen in a criminal court system because jeopardy attaches. Now obviously, this is not a court system, but arbitration. But MLB didn't like the verdict they got when Braun appealed, so they decided to basically ignore it, and go after him again.

Remember when this story first broke? The initial article by ESPN was "Ryan Braun to be suspended for PED use". Shortly thereafter, the story changed, that "Braun will be banned for a banned substance, not a PED". Then the stories started coming out that Braun was taking a medication for herpes. STD medication and PEDs are not even remotely the same thing.

Where is the truth in this? All we know for sure is that Braun was to be suspended for a banned substance, that his testosterone levels were nearly three times higher than any professional athlete had ever tested before, and that he won his appeal by challenging the procedure in which his sample was handled. That doesn't mean his defense team couldn't have gone after the science. They pursued the line of defense that would most likely result in an overturn. It was hardly the only avenue available to them.

Now we know for a fact that Braun will be suspended for the remainder of the 2013 season. That's about all we really know. We don't know definitively what banned substance he took. We don't know what he was presented with by MLB.

I just hope that these "leaks" which served MLB so effectively will start disclosing the facts of the case. Let's see both sides.

ARE YOU RYAN BRAUN?