Braun Suspended for Balance of the 2013 Season

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

[/b]

You are joking right?
Bill, Braun admitted it! Didn't you read his statement....the MLBPA was PROUD that he admitted it....

I think you should stop posting in this thread.....

Of course I read his statement. Show me where he has ever admitted specifically to using PEDs.

"As I have acknowledged in the past, I am not perfect," Braun said in a statement. "I realize now that I have made some mistakes. I am willing to accept the consequences of those actions. This situation has taken a toll on me and my entire family, and it has been a distraction to my teammates and the Brewers organization. I am very grateful for the support I have received from players, ownership and the fans in Milwaukee and around the country.

I do not see the words "I used PED" anywhere in that statement.

CBS has the headline: "Ryan Braun admits PED use, suspended for rest of 2013"

Then they start the article off with "Braun admitted using performance-enhancing drugs, though he did not give any specifics."

The headline and that statement contradict each other. A player coming out and saying "I used steroids" is an admission of using steroids. A player saying "I made some mistakes" is a blanket statement that leaves a lot open to interpretation. Sports sites like ESPN, Yahoo and CBS can report it how they want. And maybe they're right. Maybe it's an 80 or 90% chance he used performance enhancers. But until the language is undeniable, I will still allow for the slim possibility that Braun used something else.

Who am I supposed to believe? ESPN? Major League Baseball, who's in bed with these lowlifes at Biogenesis? If a dog lies down with fleas, they're going to get bitten. So, show me the proof, otherwise there's always going to be doubt, and justifiably so.

You guys can call me a homer, or say that I'm wearing rose-colored glasses all you want. I've done a lot of research on the science involved in drug testing. Braun got off on a technicality? Or, maybe they screwed up his sample. Is it not possible?

Everybody was so sure Diane Modhal was cheating, too. The track and field star was found to have abnormal levels of testosterone in her system, and they basically ran over her the same way MLB has run over Braun. It was later proven that the laboratory mishandled her sample. She was exonerated. So maybe the collector in Braun's case didn't purposely screw with his sample. The opportunity was there. He's a Cubs fan, and if you guys are going to tell me that nobody would do something like that based on an allegiance to a team, I'd show you a tape of the Giants fan that got beaten by Dodgers fans because he was wearing his team's colors at Dodger Stadium. Even if he didn't mess with the sample, he did not do his job properly. Period. When procedures are not followed, the sample is considered tainted. And when you exclude that sample, you look at all the other samples Braun has given, all of which have been clean.

If baseball's case against Braun were in a criminal court, it would get laughed out of the courtroom. No physical or scientific proof whatsoever. Their entire case basically resides in the testimony of a bunch of lowlifes that baseball would have gone after were it not for their agreeing to testify against the MLB players under investigation.

[iwantitiwinit]

If not guilty then why accept the ban. No way I ever admit to something I didnt do. His motivation for accepting a ban is once again predicated on money. He will be making more next year than this year so his reduction in take home would be greater next year under a ban. I would bet that is his sole motivation not the fact that his team is out of it this year. Why would we think its anything different.

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Of course I read his statement. Show me where he has ever admitted specifically to using PEDs.



I do not see the words "I used PED" anywhere in that statement.

CBS has the headline: "Ryan Braun admits PED use, suspended for rest of 2013"

Then they start the article off with "Braun admitted using performance-enhancing drugs, though he did not give any specifics."

The headline and that statement contradict each other. A player coming out and saying "I used steroids" is an admission of using steroids. A player saying "I made some mistakes" is a blanket statement that leaves a lot open to interpretation. Sports sites like ESPN, Yahoo and CBS can report it how they want. And maybe they're right. Maybe it's an 80 or 90% chance he used performance enhancers. But until the language is undeniable, I will still allow for the slim possibility that Braun used something else.

Who am I supposed to believe? ESPN? Major League Baseball, who's in bed with these lowlifes at Biogenesis? If a dog lies down with fleas, they're going to get bitten. So, show me the proof, otherwise there's always going to be doubt, and justifiably so.

You guys can call me a homer, or say that I'm wearing rose-colored glasses all you want. I've done a lot of research on the science involved in drug testing. Braun got off on a technicality? Or, maybe they screwed up his sample. Is it not possible?

Everybody was so sure Diane Modhal was cheating, too. The track and field star was found to have abnormal levels of testosterone in her system, and they basically ran over her the same way MLB has run over Braun. It was later proven that the laboratory mishandled her sample. She was exonerated. So maybe the collector in Braun's case didn't purposely screw with his sample. The opportunity was there. He's a Cubs fan, and if you guys are going to tell me that nobody would do something like that based on an allegiance to a team, I'd show you a tape of the Giants fan that got beaten by Dodgers fans because he was wearing his team's colors at Dodger Stadium. Even if he didn't mess with the sample, he did not do his job properly. Period. When procedures are not followed, the sample is considered tainted. And when you exclude that sample, you look at all the other samples Braun has given, all of which have been clean.

If baseball's case against Braun were in a criminal court, it would get laughed out of the courtroom. No physical or scientific proof whatsoever. Their entire case basically resides in the testimony of a bunch of lowlifes that baseball would have gone after were it not for their agreeing to testify against the MLB players under investigation.

[ScottFandango]

Quote:
"As I have acknowledged in the past, I am not perfect," Braun said in a statement. "I realize now that I have made some mistakes. I am willing to accept the consequences of those actions. This situation has taken a toll on me and my entire family, and it has been a distraction to my teammates and the Brewers organization. I am very grateful for the support I have received from players, ownership and the fans in Milwaukee and around the country.

He realized it NOW because he got caught...If MLB never bought all the evidence, he would NOT HAVE REALIZED IT....this means he believed his own lies.its amazing how money can "self brainwash" someone....


The "support he RECEIVED (past tense)" from people,he LIED TO on numerous occasions...seeing his winter 2012 interview makes me Vomit...I'll give him this:

He is an AMAZING LIER

[vintagetoppsguy]

Some people choose to see the world through rose colored glasses...

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Some people choose to see the world through rose colored glasses...

Deny deny deny. If Braun did nothing then he should fight it. I'm sure if ESPN was making false allegations then Braun should sue them. Just a thought.

[conor912]

I think they should make PEDs mandatory for every player. That will solve this whole "fairness" debate once and for all.

[autograf]

I agree with the sentiment that I would be surprised if ANYONE was not cheating in MLB. The whole thing is a sham unfortunately. There are chemists out there right now mixing stuff that likely is undetectable in the range of testing that MLB employs and there are players pulling their pants down for a shot. I agree we need to just make it wide open or ban after first instance. It has become an embarrassment...........

[markf31]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I do not see the words "I used PED" anywhere in that statement.

I also do not see the words "I did not use PEDs" or "I used a banned substance that was not a PED" or anything along those lines anywhere in that statement either, which you would think if he was trying to semi-exonerate(?) himself he would have mentioned.

Sometimes what someone doesn't say, is just as damning as something they do say.

It's also interesting to note that when the suspension was overturned last year, he couldn't get in front of a camera quick enough to pronounce and glorify his innocence and vindication. Yet this time around it comes out as a simple statement provided to the media, no press conference, no cameras.

[nolemmings]

on Oct. 19, 2011, he said he told the players association: "I promise you on anything that's ever meant anything to me in my life, the morals, the virtues, the values by which I've lived in my 28 years on this planet, I did not do this."

I wish that MLB required Braun to allocute if he wanted to avoid a hearing and potential stiffer suspension. Maybe our criminal defense attorneys can chime in here--perhaps an allocution in this setting is off-limits because it could be used against him in future criminal proceedings. That would also explain why Braun dances around any specifics.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I wish that MLB required Braun to allocute if he wanted to avoid a hearing and potential stiffer suspension. Maybe our criminal defense attorneys can chime in here--perhaps an allocution in this setting is off-limits because it could be used against him in future criminal proceedings. That would also explain why Braun dances around any specifics.

That's spooky, Todd. I made my prior post before reading anything on the next page, including your post.

By the time these players do get caught, they've secured their million. A suspension is just a slap on the wrist. They might lose some endorsements, but by then, they've got more money than they should ever need.

MLB wants to rid the sport of these steroids? Instead of suspending a player for 50 or 100 games, threaten to ban them for life unless they publicly allocute to what they used. Some players won't care. But the shame that comes with having to stand in front of the press, with all the cameras, and telling the world what you've done...that could be a powerful deterrent. It would sure knock these players down a few notches.

[steve B]

I guess this won't make anyone happy, but here's my take on things.

Baseball tests for a lot of stuff. There's a decent list on wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_L...ll_drug_policy

Some of what they test for is not performance enhancing. Some certainly is, some ....Some I have no idea what the heck it is. I can't see some of the stimulants enhancing erformance - Meth? Maybe a time or two, but not long term.

I do know that a poppy seed bagel can lead to a positive test for opiates, which are banned. Ephedrine in cold medecine is also banned.

The comment that they can't say what was detected because of both the CBA and HIPAA is correct. So unless Braun gets into details we'll never know.

I'd like to think that if it was something stupid like cold medecine or poppy seeds they'd give him a break. (There's precedent, the snowboard kid who tested positive for pot at the olympics claimed secondary contact and got a pass because the levels made sense.)

Him not releasing details makes it look worse.

Some of the results CAN be altered if the sample is mishandled. Without knowing the substance, we can't know if the earlier positive was one that could be affected, or if it was purely a proceedural problem.

Lance DID have a positive test publicly overturned, a 1999 positive for corticosteroid that he blamed on saddle sore ointment.

And like Braun, he passed a number of tests. A few failures were hidden through bribery be Nike. (Surprised nobody has been banned or arrested for that)

A lot of commonly used medications or products are on the WADA list. There are a number of cases outlined on their site when discussing suspensions and fairness. http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Wo..._Article10.pdf

One is a tennis player banned for a year for a hair restoration product he'd used for years. He just never checked the list when it got added.

Some substances are ok with a medical waiver. Concerta is becoming more common in the NFL.

I'm fairly sure that most of us, especially those if us who are older would not pass a drug test used for international competition. Especially anyone using vitamin supplements.

Maybe the ban is fair, maybe not. I think that with testing being somewhat new in MLB there's a learning curve about what ordinary stuff will cause a positive test. And that using clinics like biogenesis is very risky.

Steve B

Steve B

[kmac32]

Did some reading and Braun's first red flag in 2011 was due to an elevated testosterone level found upon testing. That alone is highly suggestive of PED use even if the sample was not handled according to the MLB guidelines. Too bad MLB didn't get on top of things and due further testing to confirm the suspicion back in 2011. His current admission indicates the initial testing was accurate.

[cubsfan-budman]

He can't say that he used PEDs because many of them are not just banned by baseball, but they're illegal...meaning if he admitted he used them, he could go to jail.

You won't hear what he did until his memoirs come out in 30 years.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

He can't say that he used PEDs because many of them are not just banned by baseball, but they're illegal...meaning if he admitted he used them, he could go to jail.

You won't hear what he did until his memoirs come out in 30 years.

I just can't wait......

Maybe the Feds will go after him for transporting illegal substances across state borders and make him the next BONDZ...That would make a good read

[drcy]

A lot of players get in trouble for illegally taking prescription medicine-- meaning taking it without a doctor's prescription. Steroids and HGH are legal if and only if prescribed by a physician. And, in fact, MLB does on rare occasion allow players to take steroids or HGH if they have legitimate, physician identified medical reason that requires the treatment. In recent years one actively playing MLB player was allowed to use HGH because he had a genetic medical condition.

Duly note that federal law states that steroids cannot be prescribed for athletic performance reasons.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by drcy

A lot of players get in trouble for illegally taking prescription medicine-- meaning taking it without a doctor's prescription. Steroids and HGH are legal IF prescribed by an physician. And, in fact, MLB has allowed at least one player to take HGH, because he had a legitimate medical reason.

Prescription pain killers are taken legally in the US everyday. But normal citizens do go to jail for forging prescriptions to get them.

Lastly, federal law states tat steroids cannot be prescribed for athletic performance. Any use of them for athletic performance is by definition against the law.

My point exactly.....

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Did some reading and Braun's first red flag in 2011 was due to an elevated testosterone level found upon testing. That alone is highly suggestive of PED use even if the sample was not handled according to the MLB guidelines. Too bad MLB didn't get on top of things and due further testing to confirm the suspicion back in 2011. His current admission indicates the initial testing was accurate.

Elevated testosterone alone is not an indication of drug use. Some people have medical conditions that naturally produce high levels of testosterone. Hyperthyroidism, for one. Now of course, if an athlete has one of these conditions, you'd think they would report it to MLB. Failing to do so would not be a sufficient reason for having a suspension overturned.

[the 'stache]

I can't disagree with a single thing you've said, Mark. And I think what everybody else has said is also spot on. To be honest, I'm just exhausted by this whole thing. Maybe I'm not thinking clearly. I know he did something wrong. I want to know specifically what that was. No more speculation, no more "well, he admitted to it but wasn't specific". Enough! A criminal has to allocute before accepting a plea bargain. The fans that have been through the ringer with this whole thing deserve the truth.

I guess I just want him to stop screwing around, and tell us what really happened. No more filtering your words through some lawyer's office at $500 an hour. Tell us what you took. Tell us why you did it. Be honest, for God's sake. My opinion of his has been damaged, but if I'm ever going to forgive the guy, he needs to come clean.

Originally Posted by markf31

I also do not see the words "I did not use PEDs" or "I used a banned substance that was not a PED" or anything along those lines anywhere in that statement either, which you would think if he was trying to semi-exonerate(?) himself he would have mentioned.

Sometimes what someone doesn't say, is just as damning as something they do say.

It's also interesting to note that when the suspension was overturned last year, he couldn't get in front of a camera quick enough to pronounce and glorify his innocence and vindication. Yet this time around it comes out as a simple statement provided to the media, no press conference, no cameras.