Top 30 Pre-WWII Players

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Paul S

I have to politely disagree with a huge amount of what you say. I do give you some credence with the Beltran analogy. However, there is a reason these same players' names keep coming up. If we read or listen to books such as The Glory of Their Times, we hear contemporaies talking the the same players. Also, those who voted on a player for HOF status saw all the players. Hence, this is more than urban (Shocker) legend (sorry, couldn't resist). And then, combined with the stats, it's backed up. You can find this in many fields and occupations. You ask around long enough and ask enough people for a real expert, the same names keep popping up.

I think you misunderstood the point of my post. I am not disagreeing with anyone's list of players and it's pretty obvious that people like Ruth, Cobb, Gehrig, et al, would pop up across the board. There are reasons why they are all known as all time greats. I'm simply pointing out the fact that no one here has ever seen any of these players play the game, so the personal connection is non-existent. And that's a very important part of 'judging' contemporary major leaguers...like my hatred for Beltran.

[packs]

I see what you're saying. Someone could look at Pedro's career and think he put up solid but not outstanding numbers without seeing him play and realizing just how much better he was than anyone else.

[bbcard1]

In an effort to avoid the work I need to do tonight, here's my list....1900 through WW2...not too much though so I'll bet you'll find at least on glaring error.

1. Babe Ruth
2. Walter Johnson
3. Lou Gehrig
4. Ty Cobb
5. Honus Wagner
6. Christy Mathewson
7. Cy Young
8. Josh Gibson
9. Lefty Grove
10. Rogers Hornsby
11. Jimmy Foxx
12. Tris Speaker
13. Nap Lajoie
14. Grover Alexander
15. George Sisler
16. Satchell Paige
17. Bill Terry
18. Eddie Collins
19. Joe Jackson
20. Mel Ott
21. Paul Waner
22. Al Simmons
23. Frankie Frisch
24. Bill Terry
25. Harry Heilmann
26. Sam Crawford
27. Bill Dickey
28. Charlie Gehringer
29. Home Run Baker
30. Larry Doyle

[Sean]

I don't mean this as criticism, but since you included Negro Leaguers, how could you leave off Oscar Charleston?

[mannybb24]

Originally Posted by Sean

I don't mean this as criticism, but since you included Negro Leaguers, how could you leave off Oscar Charleston?

I guess that's the one glaring error bbcard1 was talking about.

[Eric72]

P - Walter Johnson
C - Josh Gibson
1B - Lou Gehrig
2B - Rogers Hornsby
SS - Honus Wagner
3B - Frank Baker
LF - Joe Jackson
CF - Ty Cobb
RF - Babe Ruth

[jerrys]

Quotes by Ruth's fellow ball players:

"Sometimes I still can't believe what I saw," said Harry Hooper, a Boston teammate of Ruth's. "This 19-year-old kid, crude, poorly educated, only lightly brushed by the social veneer we call civilization, gradually transformed into the idol of American youth and the symbol of baseball the world over - a man loved by more people and with an intensity of feeling that perhaps has never been equaled before or since."

"Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week, he might have lasted a long time and become a great star." ...Tris Speaker on Babe Ruth's future, 1921.

"He hits the ball harder and further than any man I ever saw." ...Bill Dickey, teammate

[yanksfan09]

Eric, that's a pretty good starting 9. I'd have to think a while if I wanted to change any. My list would be very similar.

I see no 19th century guys... I admit though, that I don't know enough about the top 19th century players. I think it's very hard to compare them even to the early 20th century guys since the game and the way everything was setup was so different. It's also so hard to know what to do with Negro League guys on lists. There's incomplete stats and irregular seasons and everything was much more disorganized in general. It's a shame we'll never really know exactly how each of the top players stacked up. I feel the same way about today's players who were known or highly suspected steroids guys. A guy like Barry Bonds, it's hard to know just where to rank him, if he hadn't done anything. I believe he started in 1999 from what stories say, so if that's true we can see his career arch and his accomplishments up to that point and speculate. But, in the end, it's just that a lot of speculation. I guess that makes for fun debates though.

Don't mean to get into a debate on roids guys, just have some random thoughts.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by yanksfan09

Eric, that's a pretty good starting 9. I'd have to think a while if I wanted to change any. My list would be very similar.

I see no 19th century guys...

Erick,

Thanks for the kind words. My original list was comprised entirely of MLB players, and I had Mike Kelly as my catcher.

When I expanded the list to include Josh Gibson, I also placed Oscar Charleston in center. Figuring that the board would roast me for not including a certain Detroit Tiger, I quickly decided against this.

Anyway, since this thread has been conspicuously void of eye candy so far, I figured it would be nice to include a picture of the three players mentioned here.



Best Regards,

Eric

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I think you misunderstood the point of my post. I am not disagreeing with anyone's list of players and it's pretty obvious that people like Ruth, Cobb, Gehrig, et al, would pop up across the board. There are reasons why they are all known as all time greats. I'm simply pointing out the fact that no one here has ever seen any of these players play the game, so the personal connection is non-existent. And that's a very important part of 'judging' contemporary major leaguers...like my hatred for Beltran.

I hear ya. I guess any personal connection re older players is through romanticizing them. No romanticizing Beltran. As a NYer (Yankees) I've seen Beltran on TV plenty of times. Maybe one of the most non-electrifying players around. I'm not even a Met hater, more like indifferent about them but wouldn't mind seeing them do well for the sake of NY baseball. This now makes me have to re-examine my feelings toward Keeler. Did people go bananas when he stepped into an opportune or clutch situation, or did they yawn, Hey Willie, hit one where they ain't.? 8591 ABs and only 241 doubles...not too electrifying.