FAKE packs and an FBI Fraud Investigation: What would YOU do?

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Why do you ask? You may be right, but it's not clear to me so far. Please explain.

Dan I was asking because he has admitted to faking packs. I really do not buy the Robin Hood story of trying to uncover the crooked PSA authenticator. I think he wanted to know if his packs could get past PSA and they did. I believe he sent them not to help the hobby, but to make more money in a crooked business. How would I know how to fake packs and get them past PSA if I were not in a crooked business. I do not think faking packs is a normal hobby for an honest hobbyist.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Dan I was asking because he has admitted to faking packs. I really do not buy the Robin Hood story of trying to uncover the crooked PSA authenticator. I think he wanted to know if his packs could get past PSA and they did. I believe he sent them not to help the hobby, but to make more money in a crooked business. How would I know how to fake packs and get them past PSA if I were not in a crooked business. I do not think faking packs is a normal hobby for an honest hobbyist.

Well besides admitting faking packs if you read post #57, Jose wrote:

The packs that i was involved directly in altering that graded
are still in my posetion,, i call them proof and think only 12 people will see'm

So far there's no clear proof he sold fake packs.

[Rich Klein]

All were publicized at the time.

And this is from a recent article I wrote for Sports Collectors Daily

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...ck-a-long-way/

Rich

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Well besides admitting faking packs if you read post #57, Jose wrote:

The packs that i was involved directly in altering that graded
are still in my posetion,, i call them proof and think only 12 people will see'm

So far there's no clear proof he sold fake packs.

No problem Dan I would just agree to disagree.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

No problem Dan I would just agree to disagree.

I honestly don't know Jose from Shinola, but there was a former poster on this board who successfully altered cards and got them graded by PSA as an experiment. I won't pass any judgement here until we see all the facts laid out.

[1980scollector]

I bought four or five PSA graded packs from Jose when I was in my pack collecting phase.


He would be the only one that could tell you whether they were "josemade" packs or authentic.

Never doubted their authenticity because they were in PSA holders.


My packs are long gone because I jump around on my collecting and sold my entire pack collection around a year ago.

However, here is two links that might be worth a look.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-TOPPS-C...p2047675.l2557


http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedi...pack-309001126

[D. Bergin]

This is certainly a fascinating thread.

After reading the whole thread my take on the translation of events is as follows.

Pepis was a wax/cello pack dealer and expert. He allegedly knows the ins and outs and possibilities based on sequences and such.

Pepis submitted a number of his own packs over the years to PSA for resale purposes.

Throughout the course of time Pepis became disillusioned when he saw, what he thought were bad packs, in PSA holders.

In order to test the system himself, he rigged up a bunch of bad packs on his own. They passed at PSA. He went public with PSA's authentication short-comings, based on evidence he planted himself into the system.

Pepis kept those altered packs in his collection as evidence.

In response, PSA placed an alert on ALL packs Pepis had submitted to them over the years.........leaving collectors he had sold to, holding the bag.

I hope this is the case, and he hasn't actually sold any of his altered packs.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

This is certainly a fascinating thread.

After reading the whole thread my take on the translation of events is as follows.

Pepis was a wax/cello pack dealer and expert. He allegedly knows the ins and outs and possibilities based on sequences and such.

Pepis submitted a number of his own packs over the years to PSA for resale purposes.

Throughout the course of time Pepis became disillusioned when he saw, what he thought were bad packs, in PSA holders.

In order to test the system himself, he rigged up a bunch of bad packs on his own. They passed at PSA. He went public with PSA's authentication short-comings, based on evidence he planted himself into the system.

Pepis kept those altered packs in his collection as evidence.

In response, PSA placed an alert on ALL packs Pepis had submitted to them over the years.........leaving collectors he had sold to, holding the bag.

I hope this is the case, and he hasn't actually sold any of his altered packs.

Excellent synopsis! Thank you for posting that.

[pepis]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Well besides admitting faking packs if you read post #57, Jose wrote:

The packs that i was involved directly in altering that graded
are still in my posetion,, i call them proof and think only 12 people will see'm

So far there's no clear proof he sold fake packs.

Dan, here is one of the samples, this packs top (Willie) card has a nasty
gum stain on back, and a tear that only okurs when the pack is opened,
Matt Miller and others at the CU were persistant with their offers traying
to buy it, but i couldn't sell it is an important part of my venture.
Jose

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by pepis

Dan, here is one of the samples, this packs top (Willie) card has a nasty
gum stain and a tear that only okurs when the pack is opened,
Matt Miller and others at the CU were persistant with their offers traying
to buy it, but i couldn't sell it is an important part of my venture.
Jose

So is that just a bad/resealed pack that got graded, or is the pack altered?

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

So is that just a bad/resealed pack that got graded, or is the pack altered?

Sample of what? A pack you bought, or a pack you created and had graded? A pack you 'got' from someone? If so, who?

Jose, your dancing around questions is evasive. Your wording of your answers, and I am ASSuming, appears intentionally spun to tell your story the way you want to tell it. Or is it because you are not quite sure how to say it, I don't know. This whole thing is just wrong.

I asked several pages back about your statement of sharing info with 12 people. If this is a thinly veiled reference to a jury, good luck. If this is a reference to a Grand Jury, what are you doing here? Either way, tell it straight or do us all a favor and take a week or so off...

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by drmondobueno

Sample of what? A pack you bought, or a pack you created and had graded? A pack you 'got' from someone? If so, who?

Jose, your dancing around questions is evasive. Your wording of your answers, and I am ASSuming, appears intentionally spun to tell your story the way you want to tell it. Or is it because you are not quite sure how to say it, I don't know. This whole thing is just wrong.

I asked several pages back about your statement of sharing info with 12 people. If this is a thinly veiled reference to a jury, good luck. If this is a reference to a Grand Jury, what are you doing here? Either way, tell it straight or do us all a favor and take a week or so off...

Sorry, Leon. My name is Keith Temple and I cannot spell worth a d$;n on an ipad

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by drmondobueno

Sample of what? A pack you bought, or a pack you created and had graded? A pack you 'got' from someone? If so, who?

Jose, your dancing around questions is evasive. Your wording of your answers, and I am ASSuming, appears intentionally spun to tell your story the way you want to tell it. Or is it because you are not quite sure how to say it, I don't know. This whole thing is just wrong.

I asked several pages back about your statement of sharing info with 12 people. If this is a thinly veiled reference to a jury, good luck. If this is a reference to a Grand Jury, what are you doing here? Either way, tell it straight or do us all a favor and take a week or so off...

I have to agree at this point. From other info I've received it seems Jose isn't the angel he makes himself out to be.

S3AN.B4SS1K

[glynparson]

Did not just get altered cards through psa but through all the grading companies including sgc and he posted proof on here with before and after pics.