FAKE packs and an FBI Fraud Investigation: What would YOU do?

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by botn

Wow a thread that brought out Rick Probstein. Too bad Rick never piped in on threads that he and his auctions were the subject of.

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

Good to see you doing some research on unopened material after seeing all those bad rack packs you were selling.

If I were a dealer I wouldn't post many questions here either if these were the types of responses I got.

jeff

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

If I were a dealer I wouldn't post many questions here either if these were the types of responses I got.

jeff

Lots of dealers ask questions here, ones that have no reason to garner such negative responses, don't.

I have bought stuff from Rick P, and will continue to as he's got quality material, and I think he's a good seller. I will however, examine closely the biddig activity. It is my opinion that some his consignors are using him as an easy avenue to shill their lots, and no one on his end really cares...

Matt Hall

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Lots of dealers ask questions here, ones that have no reason to garner such negative responses, don't.

I have bought stuff from Rick P, and will continue to as he's got quality material, and I think he's a good seller. I will however, examine closely the biddig activity. It is my opinion that some his consignors are using him as an easy avenue to shill their lots, and no one on his end really cares...

Matt Hall

I have no problem with your position at all. My only point is that we can either use this forum to constantly complain about grading companies, dealers, bad buyers, bad sellers, etc, etc, etc or try to improve the hobby when given the opportunity. If a dealer shows any sign of wanting to learn more about how to spot fakes, reprints, repacked packs, etc., I think we should take it as an opportunity to educate instead of pile on.

jeff

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Jeff, I appreciate your comments but, with all due respect, I don't think you're fully aware of all the details.

[Matthew H]

Thanks for clearing it up for me Dan... I'm not too knowledgeable on the cello pack niche. I noticed he was flaunting some unopened 1987 topps
Football, I'm kinda surprised the hobby values something like that.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

I have no problem with your position at all. My only point is that we can either use this forum to constantly complain about grading companies, dealers, bad buyers, bad sellers, etc, etc, etc or try to improve the hobby when given the opportunity. If a dealer shows any sign of wanting to learn more about how to spot fakes, reprints, repacked packs, etc., I think we should take it as an opportunity to educate instead of pile on.

jeff

I am not sure that ignoring the issues and problems will solve anything. This board makes many aware of the issues out there to protect the hobby. A complaint about a seller or grading company can save someone $ in the end. I guess if you don't like how things are here then you can find another board to visit for info and warnings.

If your referring to probstein123 as "the dealer" then he deserves more than a questioning IMO. He can comment on this of all things but can't come here and reply to allegations of bidding fraud in his auctions. Why the intrest in this Rick? I think there is more than we know with this connection. This is just my opinion but something smells fishy.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Why the intrest in this Rick? I think there is more than we know with this connection. This is just my opinion but something smells fishy.

Not accusing of anything, but just pointing out that the second post he ever made to Net54 was asking how many cards are in a pack of 1961 Fleer Basketball.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=134536

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Not accusing of anything, but just pointing out that the second post he ever made to Net54 was asking how many cards are in a pack of 1961 Fleer Basketball.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=134536

The funny thing about this link is the only person who answered him is an admitted shiller on this thread:

http://forums.collectors.com/message...42&STARTPAGE=2

Will this stuff ever end?

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

I have no problem with your position at all. My only point is that we can either use this forum to constantly complain about grading companies, dealers, bad buyers, bad sellers, etc, etc, etc or try to improve the hobby when given the opportunity. If a dealer shows any sign of wanting to learn more about how to spot fakes, reprints, repacked packs, etc., I think we should take it as an opportunity to educate instead of pile on.

jeff

Jeff, I don't see it as "complaining", it's more of a "calling out". If you or I, or anyone else starts doing something questionable, we should all expect a thorough bashing here on the board.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Using Google's "poofed-thread" recovery feature, here's some of the packs StarPaxMan was showing off along with some interesting admissions:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache6XfjCoo3MgJ:forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm%3Fcatid%3D11%26threadid%3D848796%2 6STARTPAGE%3D4+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

In thread #6 1980scollector wrote:

Just want to thank Jose. Today, made him an offer for two packs. He came back and actually offered to sell the two for 50.00 less than my offer.

In all my days, never had someone take my offer and reduce it.

Can't wait to get my two packs!

So it appears some of these were sold unless the deal never went through.

[Matthew H]

Dan, where are the admissions?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Matt,

Besides the quote from another collector regarding a sale, other things were mentioned:

In thread #4, 1980scollector wrote:

Jose,

Wow, I wanted the Dawson since I missed your PSA 9 you sold earlier this year and then I realized it is a TOP and BOTTOM.



In thread #7 StarPaxMan wrote:

The 1st time i remember going out making daly rounds to dep stores card shops etc was during the David Clyde rc frenzie in 1974, in 1975 i went nuts buying case after case of 1975 pulling all the star/rookies on top out and sell
everything else at shows,i think i paid between $120 and $175 per case through 1977 and it went on on different levels til the mid 80s when competition got tough.
btw; between 1976-1979 G.foster was a super star the absolute class of the NL,,,,,,,,,,,Jose

In summary, with discussions of packs being sold and claiming to have bought these packs as originals, I'm having a hard time believing that this was all just a test to see how good the graders and experts are.

I'm curious to know how this was all brought out into the open. Was it by the pack submitter or did someone blow the whistle on him?

[slidekellyslide]

On April 7, 2012 someone wrote only "Your honor" in that thread.

Prescient?

[pepis]

In thread #7 StarPaxMan wrote:



I'm curious to know how this was all brought out into the open. Was it by the pack submitter or did someone blow the whistle on him?[/QUOTE]

A litle before this thread was deleted the CU deleted another thread
(unopened packs with stars on top) was also deleted now if Dan can recover that thread
you'll find what got all this starded in page # 22

[atx840]

Page 1

Page 22

[pepis]

Originally Posted by atx840

Page 1

Page 22

Chris,
i see you founded now you need page #22 which is the start and continues for 3 or 4 pages,

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Here you go, from page 22 through 34 (the entire thread had 127 pages!):

22

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a


23

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24

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25

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http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a


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http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a


29

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a


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http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a


31

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a


32

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a


33

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a


34

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

[jwgators]

http://web.archive.org/web/201012060...6&STARTPAGE=22