FAKE packs and an FBI Fraud Investigation: What would YOU do?

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Originally Posted by probstein123

1979 Thrman Munson his card ony came in the bottom section and a
true expert should know that
==> how is this rock solid definitive info ? very curious to know and understand.
thx

Good to see you doing some research on unopened material after seeing all those bad rack packs you were selling.

[mcadams]

Pepis- If this is your version of an apology, then I'd say its one of the worst apologies I've ever heard. You have a lot of nerve posting an admission here in such a callous and unremorseful fashion.

[cincyredlegs]

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

Good to see you doing some research on unopened material after seeing all those bad rack packs you were selling.

+1

[cguidi]

I so wish I could be there to see the look on the poor jurors' (the 12 people Pepis is planning on showing his packs to) faces when they find out that this is the case they are going to be stuck listening to... something tells me that by the time the lawyers are done screening no one there will be nearly as interested as anyone who is reading this forum. Unless of course Pepis has a Runaway Jury partner in crime...

[botn]

Wow a thread that brought out Rick Probstein. Too bad Rick never piped in on threads that he and his auctions were the subject of.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by botn

Wow a thread that brought out Rick Probstein. Too bad Rick never piped in on threads that he and his auctions were the subject of.

That is exactly what I noticed. Here is a fresh one:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=probstein

[brob28]

Looks like nobody directly answered your questions. I'll leave the legal advice to others and stick to simple "do the right thing" answers.

Questions for the board:
A) Is it morally ok for me to sell the packs on the list? Seriously? No its not ok to sell something you have reason to believe is altered.

B) How would you feel if you saw a pack you owned on the list? Umm, Bad

C) Should I disclose to my friend that he could have a fake pack even though I told Steve Hart I would not share the list with anyone No, you yourself said Steve is honorable, so treat him honorably and do as you promised

D) Should I contact the consigner of the packs I sold and let him know he may have passed on fake packs Not now, you yourself said there are still questions on many packs, wait for the FBI investigation to finish and deal with any bogus packs you consigned at that time

E) I have the entire list of possible bad packs. Should I post them so people can view it or keep it a secret because I told Steve Hart I would not share the list with anyone.* I refer to the last half of your question "C" live up to your word with Steve. BTW I really hope you have not caused Steve a world of hurt by going public that he gave you this list while there is an ongoing FBI investigation

F) Should I at least expose the pack I see on ebay right now?* Even though it may be real? No, as you just said it may be real

[probstein123]

Wow a thread that brought out Rick Probstein. Too bad Rick never piped in on threads that he and his auctions were the subject of.
==> hey greg, I'll reply to that 1914 cracker jack thread shortly...

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by botn

Wow a thread that brought out Rick Probstein. Too bad Rick never piped in on threads that he and his auctions were the subject of.

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

Good to see you doing some research on unopened material after seeing all those bad rack packs you were selling.

If I were a dealer I wouldn't post many questions here either if these were the types of responses I got.

jeff

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

If I were a dealer I wouldn't post many questions here either if these were the types of responses I got.

jeff

Lots of dealers ask questions here, ones that have no reason to garner such negative responses, don't.

I have bought stuff from Rick P, and will continue to as he's got quality material, and I think he's a good seller. I will however, examine closely the biddig activity. It is my opinion that some his consignors are using him as an easy avenue to shill their lots, and no one on his end really cares...

Matt Hall

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Lots of dealers ask questions here, ones that have no reason to garner such negative responses, don't.

I have bought stuff from Rick P, and will continue to as he's got quality material, and I think he's a good seller. I will however, examine closely the biddig activity. It is my opinion that some his consignors are using him as an easy avenue to shill their lots, and no one on his end really cares...

Matt Hall

I have no problem with your position at all. My only point is that we can either use this forum to constantly complain about grading companies, dealers, bad buyers, bad sellers, etc, etc, etc or try to improve the hobby when given the opportunity. If a dealer shows any sign of wanting to learn more about how to spot fakes, reprints, repacked packs, etc., I think we should take it as an opportunity to educate instead of pile on.

jeff

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Jeff, I appreciate your comments but, with all due respect, I don't think you're fully aware of all the details.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

I have no problem with your position at all. My only point is that we can either use this forum to constantly complain about grading companies, dealers, bad buyers, bad sellers, etc, etc, etc or try to improve the hobby when given the opportunity. If a dealer shows any sign of wanting to learn more about how to spot fakes, reprints, repacked packs, etc., I think we should take it as an opportunity to educate instead of pile on.

jeff

I am not sure that ignoring the issues and problems will solve anything. This board makes many aware of the issues out there to protect the hobby. A complaint about a seller or grading company can save someone $ in the end. I guess if you don't like how things are here then you can find another board to visit for info and warnings.

If your referring to probstein123 as "the dealer" then he deserves more than a questioning IMO. He can comment on this of all things but can't come here and reply to allegations of bidding fraud in his auctions. Why the intrest in this Rick? I think there is more than we know with this connection. This is just my opinion but something smells fishy.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

I have no problem with your position at all. My only point is that we can either use this forum to constantly complain about grading companies, dealers, bad buyers, bad sellers, etc, etc, etc or try to improve the hobby when given the opportunity. If a dealer shows any sign of wanting to learn more about how to spot fakes, reprints, repacked packs, etc., I think we should take it as an opportunity to educate instead of pile on.

jeff

Jeff, I don't see it as "complaining", it's more of a "calling out". If you or I, or anyone else starts doing something questionable, we should all expect a thorough bashing here on the board.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Using Google's "poofed-thread" recovery feature, here's some of the packs StarPaxMan was showing off along with some interesting admissions:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache6XfjCoo3MgJ:forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm%3Fcatid%3D11%26threadid%3D848796%2 6STARTPAGE%3D4+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

In thread #6 1980scollector wrote:

Just want to thank Jose. Today, made him an offer for two packs. He came back and actually offered to sell the two for 50.00 less than my offer.

In all my days, never had someone take my offer and reduce it.

Can't wait to get my two packs!

So it appears some of these were sold unless the deal never went through.

[Matthew H]

Dan, where are the admissions?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Matt,

Besides the quote from another collector regarding a sale, other things were mentioned:

In thread #4, 1980scollector wrote:

Jose,

Wow, I wanted the Dawson since I missed your PSA 9 you sold earlier this year and then I realized it is a TOP and BOTTOM.



In thread #7 StarPaxMan wrote:

The 1st time i remember going out making daly rounds to dep stores card shops etc was during the David Clyde rc frenzie in 1974, in 1975 i went nuts buying case after case of 1975 pulling all the star/rookies on top out and sell
everything else at shows,i think i paid between $120 and $175 per case through 1977 and it went on on different levels til the mid 80s when competition got tough.
btw; between 1976-1979 G.foster was a super star the absolute class of the NL,,,,,,,,,,,Jose

In summary, with discussions of packs being sold and claiming to have bought these packs as originals, I'm having a hard time believing that this was all just a test to see how good the graders and experts are.

I'm curious to know how this was all brought out into the open. Was it by the pack submitter or did someone blow the whistle on him?