OT: No One Elected to the Hall?

[Tom Hufford]

Well, there was one player on the ballot that I KNOW was clean - he wouldn't, and still doesn't, even touch drinks with caffeine in them - DALE MURPHY. His vote total went up 4.1% over his 2012 vote - the highest rise of anyone on the ballot - but too little, too late.

[insidethewrapper]

Take steroids = get stronger, body changes
Tommy John Surgery = arm stronger, body changes

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Take steroids = get stronger, body changes
Tommy John Surgery = arm stronger, body changes

How many people have voluntarily gone through Tommy John Surgery.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Take steroids = get stronger, body changes
Tommy John Surgery = arm stronger, body changes

Take steroids = entire body gets stronger and the body physically changes (also known as cheating)
TJ Surgery = the arm "heals" but the rest of your body doesn't change (also known as correcting a medical condition)
Comparing the two is assinine.

[drc]

A line that separates for me is whether or not something is illegal. Tommy John surgery is legal, while taking steroids to improve athletic performance is illegal.

A footnote is that no one who had Tommy John surgery is in the Hall of Fame either. Including Tommy John.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by drc

A line that separates for me is whether or not something is illegal. Tommy John surgery is legal, while taking steroids to improve athletic performance is illegal.

+++

[Matthew80]

Originally Posted by drc

A line that separates for me is whether or not something is illegal. Tommy John surgery is legal, while taking steroids to improve athletic performance is illegal.

A footnote is that no one who had Tommy John surgery is in the Hall of Fame either. Including Tommy John.

Well said

+1

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by drc

A line that separates for me is whether or not something is illegal. Tommy John surgery is legal, while taking steroids to improve athletic performance is illegal.

A footnote is that no one who had Tommy John surgery is in the Hall of Fame either. Including Tommy John.

My ONLY issue with the steroid problem is as many stated, that during the time it was not against the game's rules, and with the counter argument that it was illegal...NOW, I'm NOT trying to apply that to all steroid users, BUT steroids aren't exactly illegal as everyone is claiming. They are certainly legal when medically prescribed. There were PLENTY of players who were using it to cheat, and there were others who probably had legitimate medical reasons. The problem here is that without league testing at the time, we ALSO didn't have a system for exemptions in place as we do today. A small chunk of these players who perhaps would've qualified for an exemption are just being lumped in with the cheaters. WHY? Because they weren't against the games rules, to make an exemption necessary..

[insidethewrapper]

Both Tommy John Surgery etc and Steroids enhance a players performance and I believe neither were against the rules at the time. These are both facts.

Just as you can't compare the Deadball era against other era's stats. You can't compare the Steroid era either. You just pick out the best players from that era and put the top 1% in the Hall of Fame.

[triwak]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Just as you can't compare the Deadball era against other era's stats. You can't compare the Steroid era either. You just pick out the best players from that era and put the top 1% in the Hall of Fame.

Agreed! I'm glad an attempt has been made to clean up the game. But mainly, because the GAME ITSELF was suffering. It was beginning to look more & more like slow-pitch softball: You either strike out (3rd foul in softball), or you trot your fat ass around the bases after connecting. Speed had almost totally been removed from the game. Also remember, PEDs were not the ONLY reason that power numbers skyrocketed; The juiced ball, shorter fences, smaller strike zone, etc. also contributed. It seems that things have somewhat returned to normalcy in recent years, and good for that.
But you can't ignore history!!!! It happened. The Hall just needs to be truthful (on the plaques), and recognize the "Steroid Era" as the time when players, owners, executives, coaches, AND fans were in transition about how the game should evolve. And it was exciting as hell!! (For awhile). We eventually came to our senses.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Just as you can't compare the Deadball era against other era's stats. You can't compare the Steroid era either. You just pick out the best players from that era and put the top 1% in the Hall of Fame.

Again this is an apples to oranges comparison. The deadball era was a period of time in which EVERY player was subjected to the nuances of the era. In other words, a level playing field. It's borderline naive to overlook how drastically steroids changed the playing field for some players and not others. These aren't energy drinks or little green pills. They are dangerous chemicals that radically alter ones physical body, strength and performance. Again, shades of grey. It's easy to say cheating is cheating and lump steroids in with emery boards and vaseline and mushy baseballs, but comparing those things is simply not accurate. Just look at the stats and it's pretty apparent how quick and radical the effect of PED's was on the game.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by novakjr

My ONLY issue with the steroid problem is as many stated, that during the time it was not against the game's rules

Commissioner Vincent said they were not allowed in 1991.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick.../memos20051109

[HOF Auto Rookies]

All I know is that because of the ramifications of no one getting in this year, the small town (which primarily relys heavily on revenue from the inductions) will take a serious hit by the outcome of this vote. It was there pride and joy come induction day.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Commissioner Vincent said they were not allowed in 1991.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick.../memos20051109

That may be the case. But saying something doesn't make it so. Especially without an enforcement program in place. Without a testing program, there was not a proper exemption process.

Given the injury history of many of these players, I guarantee many of them were on a steroid at some point. I also think that at some point McGwire would've received a medical exemption. However, he's an odd case, because he was certainly also using before it became a medical necessity for him..

Anyways. here's an interesting article about the league exemptions. And there appears to be a pattern forming with ADHD drugs..
http://deadspin.com/5964744/1-in-10-...ll-this-season

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/m...ositive-113012

[tjb1952tjb]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Take steroids = entire body gets stronger and the body physically changes (also known as cheating)
TJ Surgery = the arm "heals" but the rest of your body doesn't change (also known as correcting a medical condition)
Comparing the two is assinine.

+1