OT: No One Elected to the Hall?

[insidethewrapper]

Both Tommy John Surgery etc and Steroids enhance a players performance and I believe neither were against the rules at the time. These are both facts.

Just as you can't compare the Deadball era against other era's stats. You can't compare the Steroid era either. You just pick out the best players from that era and put the top 1% in the Hall of Fame.

[triwak]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Just as you can't compare the Deadball era against other era's stats. You can't compare the Steroid era either. You just pick out the best players from that era and put the top 1% in the Hall of Fame.

Agreed! I'm glad an attempt has been made to clean up the game. But mainly, because the GAME ITSELF was suffering. It was beginning to look more & more like slow-pitch softball: You either strike out (3rd foul in softball), or you trot your fat ass around the bases after connecting. Speed had almost totally been removed from the game. Also remember, PEDs were not the ONLY reason that power numbers skyrocketed; The juiced ball, shorter fences, smaller strike zone, etc. also contributed. It seems that things have somewhat returned to normalcy in recent years, and good for that.
But you can't ignore history!!!! It happened. The Hall just needs to be truthful (on the plaques), and recognize the "Steroid Era" as the time when players, owners, executives, coaches, AND fans were in transition about how the game should evolve. And it was exciting as hell!! (For awhile). We eventually came to our senses.

[ctownboy]

The PROBLEM with picking out the best players from the Steroid Era is that BECAUSE of the steroids no one REALLY KNOWS WHO the best players were during that era.

As a hypothetical example, compare Mark McGwire to Wally Joyner. Both played First Base. Both played in the American League. Both played on the West Coast. Both played during the late 1980's and early 1990's.

Now, if you compare their stats, you would say that Mark McGwire is more deserving of the Hall Of Fame because he hit many more Home Runs. But what if McGwire juiced and Joyner didn't? What if McGwire didn't take steroids or some other PED and he didn't hit 583 Home Runs. What if he hit 50 or maybe even 100 fewer Home Runs because he wasn't on the juice? How would Joyner and McGwire compare then?

What if because he took steroids, McGwire was on the All Star team more and had more MVP votes? Take away the steroids, reduce the number of Home Runs (and Runs scored, RBIs, Walks, Slugging Percentage and OPS) and guess what? McGwire doesn't look like a much better player than Joyner. In fact, take those things away and Joyner may have made more All Star team and gotten more MVP votes. So add those to his stats and maybe Joyner looks like a more deserving Hall Of Fame candidate than McGwire.

But, because of steroids, Human Growth Hormone and other PEDS, we wont know who was helped because they cheated and who were hurt because they didn't and we wont know the extent of either. In short, we wont REALLY know WHO the BEST players were during that era. So, I am in favor of NONE of them getting in. Unless, of course, these players want to come forward and say the are clean and then take tests to prove it. Or, they want to come forward, admit they cheated, tell exactly what they did and then have people judge them for it.

David

[novakjr]

Wally Joyner? Where's the love for Eric Karros? At one point, dude had 30+ HR's and 100 RBI's five times in a six year stretch. And didn't make ANY all star teams. Now that's a guy who got raped by the steroid era. At least Joyner got 1 All star game.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

The PROBLEM with picking out the best players from the Steroid Era is that BECAUSE of the steroids no one REALLY KNOWS WHO the best players were during that era.

As a hypothetical example, compare Mark McGwire to Wally Joyner. Both played First Base. Both played in the American League. Both played on the West Coast. Both played during the late 1980's and early 1990's.

Now, if you compare their stats, you would say that Mark McGwire is more deserving of the Hall Of Fame because he hit many more Home Runs. But what if McGwire juiced and Joyner didn't? What if McGwire didn't take steroids or some other PED and he didn't hit 583 Home Runs. What if he hit 50 or maybe even 100 fewer Home Runs because he wasn't on the juice? How would Joyner and McGwire compare then?

What if because he took steroids, McGwire was on the All Star team more and had more MVP votes? Take away the steroids, reduce the number of Home Runs (and Runs scored, RBIs, Walks, Slugging Percentage and OPS) and guess what? McGwire doesn't look like a much better player than Joyner. In fact, take those things away and Joyner may have made more All Star team and gotten more MVP votes. So add those to his stats and maybe Joyner looks like a more deserving Hall Of Fame candidate than McGwire.

But, because of steroids, Human Growth Hormone and other PEDS, we wont know who was helped because they cheated and who were hurt because they didn't and we wont know the extent of either. In short, we wont REALLY know WHO the BEST players were during that era. So, I am in favor of NONE of them getting in. Unless, of course, these players want to come forward and say the are clean and then take tests to prove it. Or, they want to come forward, admit they cheated, tell exactly what they did and then have people judge them for it.

David

+1

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Just as you can't compare the Deadball era against other era's stats. You can't compare the Steroid era either. You just pick out the best players from that era and put the top 1% in the Hall of Fame.

Again this is an apples to oranges comparison. The deadball era was a period of time in which EVERY player was subjected to the nuances of the era. In other words, a level playing field. It's borderline naive to overlook how drastically steroids changed the playing field for some players and not others. These aren't energy drinks or little green pills. They are dangerous chemicals that radically alter ones physical body, strength and performance. Again, shades of grey. It's easy to say cheating is cheating and lump steroids in with emery boards and vaseline and mushy baseballs, but comparing those things is simply not accurate. Just look at the stats and it's pretty apparent how quick and radical the effect of PED's was on the game.