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[barrysloate]

Andrew- I don't see the Wilhelm "suffered" variation on your list.

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[ctownboy]

I don't know if this matters or is relevant or not but my T205 Doc White has quotes around his name on the back. It is a Piedmont back.

David

[tedzan]

Hey good buddy

Don't forget Phelan (the 12th Minor Leaguer).

Regarding Eddie Collins (mouth closed) vs (mouth open)....it appears to me that there is a 2 to 1, respectively ratio of availability.

Do you concur ?

This is great stuff.....thanks for posting.

TED Z

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[Wite3]

I think Andrew has done well with most of his list and opinions. However, I feel there are a few problems with Andrew's list. First off, you cannot just go by the number of backs a card is available with. Several of these cards are rare even though they come with several different backs. Also, several cards are missing from this list that are actually fairly rare.


The Collins and Breshnahan mouth open are rare (As with several of the other front changes like Ford, Chase, Wiltse, Harmon, etc). They are just not seen as often as the others. In fact, in my research, they are both pretty difficult cards. It is not collector's hoarding them (Joss) or a bump because of popularity and scandal (Cicotte). They are truly in smaller numbers.

Andrew leaves off a few as well...Vaugn, Rowan, Fisher, Sweeney, and possibly Walsh (just not convinced yet but many collectors say this is tougher than many)
These cards are not only historically difficult but seem to be short printed.

The print runs are unknown. Years ago, I ventured that the 12 minor leaguers replaced some of the rarer cards in the set in the middle of the print run. I think this happened with some of the variations as well. I think this probably happened after Addie Joss died as well. This means that although they had different advertising, it was because when the run stopped at one advertising, the plates were changed before the next advertising back was run. I also feel that some cards might have been changed in the middle of the run and some sheets could have been double printed while one sheet was changed. It is impossible to know without detailed factory information.

Joshua

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[tedzan]

I'm inclined to agree with you. For my mouth open card of Eddie Collins with the miscut back indicates that it was Double-Printed.


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Thanks,

TED Z

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[ctownboy]

Andrew,

Thank you. I don't have many T205's (14) and the ones I do have, I bought at a small country auction back in the 1990's.

I was happy to see two of my cards on your list of Short Prints or rarities, J. Collins and Turner. The Collins has a Hassan back and the Turner has a Piedmont.

So, of the 14 cards I own, I have two HOF's (Griffith and Jennings) two Short Prints and doubles of Stovall (two different backs).

I say that I am happy because I remember driving for hours to gt to this auction only to find the tobacco cards as being a small number of T206's and these T205's and all in G to VG (maybe) condition.

So, even though I didn't pay much per card (maybe $3 dollars if I remember correctly?) all these years I have been disappointed because I thought for so few cards and for as bad of condition as the cards were in, that drive wasn't worth it.

Now, I see things aren't as bad as I had thought. I say this also because the big SCD price guide shows the Collins and Turner as more valuable than regular commons. I didn't know why but now I do and see that if I ever have to sell these cards then these two, even in the condition they are in, will have some people be interested in them just because of their rarity.

Finally, I think a few months ago someone (you?) was doing a poll or taking a census of T205's. Anyway, I submitted a list of mine but I do not know if whoever was taking the census ever received my info.

Thanks again,

David

[benderbroeth]

Hey David, if you ever want to sell your jimmy Collins let me know

[ctownboy]

benderbroeth,

Thanks, I will.

David